1969 Chrysler 300 - emissions equipment question
- Thread starter Jeremy MacDonald
- Start date
As long as all the federal emission stuff is still on the car, you should not have to update it to the California standard.
Dave
Jeremy MacDonald
New Member
Fantastic! I'll definitely follow that up. Many thanks!
LeBaron1973
Old Man with a Hat
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Perhaps contact Californian Chrysler clubs for assistance as you can't have the only such car in California - else move to Oregon- Mr Lux could probably assist you.
Lol.
Seriously, the people and information are out there, I wish you good luck and happy motoring.
Lol.
Seriously, the people and information are out there, I wish you good luck and happy motoring.
Build tag decoder, enter vin number to start. This will give you some information.
www.stockmopar.com
www.mopardealer.com/decoding.htm
Dave
Last edited:
See www.mopardealer.com/decoding.htm
If you find N95 code on the build tag or build sheet, the car was sold new in Ca.
Dave
MarPar
Meat Man with a Hat
Ah yes, the untenable situation. Why am I not surprised?
On a serious note, there must be a way. @saforwardlook could you shine some light?
Jeremy MacDonald
New Member
OK, thanks again. I believe this was an east coast car fr many years. I'm the first owner in California. I did contact Galen for a broadcast sheet and will post whatever I find out during this trial by fire.
Jeremy MacDonald
New Member
Many thanks.
Jeremy MacDonald
New Member
yes that's true. Do you have the PCV valve and vented oil filler cap at least? Also any stickers?
Back then, Chrysler's emission reduction package (which had a definite option code) was more "engine modification" rather than add-on parts, as Ford and GM had to do. The Chrysler option code, for vehicles sold new in CA, had a "lean-limit" carb, a distributor with a specific advance curve, and possibly the open-air crankcase breather cap replaced with a closed one whose rubber hose went to an air cleaner snorkel. From what I've read, the Chrysler combustion chamber shape allowed them to do this, rather than need the add-on air pumps and such that Ford and GM used . . . which the accountants at GM crazy.
The Cleaner Air Package (CAP) cars usually had a higher idle speed to better hit the stated idle fuel mixture specs. Some of the 6-pack motors had an idle speed of about 900rpm?? The distributor advance curve was "lazy" up until about 2000rpm, which aided lower emissions. The base timing was usually a few degrees closer to TDC than non-CAP cars. There were a few hidden things in the carbs, too. For a better explanation, there's a Chrysler MasterTech training film on the basic system and how it evolved in later years. You can find these online through a few websites. Possibly www.mymopar.com and the www.imperialclub.com website, plus a few others.
NOW, the worst case scenario is for you to have to pay for an emission test by an approved test station in CA. You can play with the carb idle mixture to hit the stated fuel/air ratio, which is what the whole deal is built around.
At this stage of the game, ANY replacement carbs and distributors will be "will fit" rather than "OEM-spec" for particular applications. So chasing the correct number distributor and/or carb numbers might not yield the desired results.
So, put some B-12 carb cleaner in the tank and take it for a long drive at highway speeds. Pus some new spark plugs of the correct heat range for the CAP cars in the engine. Spray down the carb's throttle body good, put a new pcv valve in, new air cleaner filter element, AND change the motor oil and filter. Then take it to a certified (I believe that CA requires this?) tech that is approved for emissions repairs/testing. See how it tests out with the stock specs and then see if the CAP emissions specs can be attained. ONCE it does, I suspect they'll print a document of the test results with "PASS" on it, which should be what it takes to get things taken care of, I suspect.
KEY thing is to have the car fully at operating temperature when it goes into the test cycle. The oil change is important as any "blowby" HC or CO past the rings goes into the crankcase oil and can be re-added to the air/fuel mixture in the cylinders. So minimizing that situation can be important!
ANOTHER side of things is that CA has seemingly required a "retro-fit kit" for older vehicles (starting with 1955 models?) that will make their California Air Resources Board (CARB) compliant. Worst case scenario, you might need one of those.
As far as getting anything from FCA, as requested, probably not going to happen. Seems like the option code was "N95" for the CAP option? Which would be on the data plate under the hood, IF it was on the car.
On our then-newer '66 Newport 383 2bbl, when they did a tune-up at the local Chrysler dealer, they'd always hook the car up to a air/fuel ratio tester to see that the carb was working correctly. Once, I asked if it was possible to get the idle mixture adjusted to 14.0-14.2, on a non-CAP car. It happened, but the manifold vacuum went a little lower and the engine wasn't quite as smooth, BUT it was possible.
In later years, possibly the best idle mixture setting procedure is the "lean-best idle" method. With a dwell tack hooked up, the base timing set, then set the hot base idle speed to spec. From there, turn each idle mixture screw CCW to richen the mixture and possibly increase the idle speed. When that is maxed-out, reset the idle speed down if needed. Then turn each idle mixture screw CW to result in a 20rpm drop in idle speed. Then put it back where it was. Do the other one the same way. It might take a little "back and forth" before you're done, but that's fine.
Some like to use a vacuum gauge instead, going for "max vac", but that might put things more at the rich side of the scale rather than the leanest it can be with the best idle quality at the same time.
A friend in our Mopar club had a '70 Road Runner 440+6 car that he drove and raced. All bone stock specs, just well-finessed. It would pass emissions for 1975 models without any catalytic converters when set to stock specs. That was in the early 1980s. With the greater oxygenates in the current fuels, might even do better?
Your car is not the first car with Federal specs that's been registered in CA. Nor will it be the last. Getting the letter from FCA is the easiest item to do, but getting the car to meet the CA specs on a test would be more difficult, in comparison. And that's probably where you end up, getting the test at an approved testing station (possibly operated by CHP?). Just a few extra hoops to jump through . . .
Keep us posted.
CBODY67
The Cleaner Air Package (CAP) cars usually had a higher idle speed to better hit the stated idle fuel mixture specs. Some of the 6-pack motors had an idle speed of about 900rpm?? The distributor advance curve was "lazy" up until about 2000rpm, which aided lower emissions. The base timing was usually a few degrees closer to TDC than non-CAP cars. There were a few hidden things in the carbs, too. For a better explanation, there's a Chrysler MasterTech training film on the basic system and how it evolved in later years. You can find these online through a few websites. Possibly www.mymopar.com and the www.imperialclub.com website, plus a few others.
NOW, the worst case scenario is for you to have to pay for an emission test by an approved test station in CA. You can play with the carb idle mixture to hit the stated fuel/air ratio, which is what the whole deal is built around.
At this stage of the game, ANY replacement carbs and distributors will be "will fit" rather than "OEM-spec" for particular applications. So chasing the correct number distributor and/or carb numbers might not yield the desired results.
So, put some B-12 carb cleaner in the tank and take it for a long drive at highway speeds. Pus some new spark plugs of the correct heat range for the CAP cars in the engine. Spray down the carb's throttle body good, put a new pcv valve in, new air cleaner filter element, AND change the motor oil and filter. Then take it to a certified (I believe that CA requires this?) tech that is approved for emissions repairs/testing. See how it tests out with the stock specs and then see if the CAP emissions specs can be attained. ONCE it does, I suspect they'll print a document of the test results with "PASS" on it, which should be what it takes to get things taken care of, I suspect.
KEY thing is to have the car fully at operating temperature when it goes into the test cycle. The oil change is important as any "blowby" HC or CO past the rings goes into the crankcase oil and can be re-added to the air/fuel mixture in the cylinders. So minimizing that situation can be important!
ANOTHER side of things is that CA has seemingly required a "retro-fit kit" for older vehicles (starting with 1955 models?) that will make their California Air Resources Board (CARB) compliant. Worst case scenario, you might need one of those.
As far as getting anything from FCA, as requested, probably not going to happen. Seems like the option code was "N95" for the CAP option? Which would be on the data plate under the hood, IF it was on the car.
On our then-newer '66 Newport 383 2bbl, when they did a tune-up at the local Chrysler dealer, they'd always hook the car up to a air/fuel ratio tester to see that the carb was working correctly. Once, I asked if it was possible to get the idle mixture adjusted to 14.0-14.2, on a non-CAP car. It happened, but the manifold vacuum went a little lower and the engine wasn't quite as smooth, BUT it was possible.
In later years, possibly the best idle mixture setting procedure is the "lean-best idle" method. With a dwell tack hooked up, the base timing set, then set the hot base idle speed to spec. From there, turn each idle mixture screw CCW to richen the mixture and possibly increase the idle speed. When that is maxed-out, reset the idle speed down if needed. Then turn each idle mixture screw CW to result in a 20rpm drop in idle speed. Then put it back where it was. Do the other one the same way. It might take a little "back and forth" before you're done, but that's fine.
Some like to use a vacuum gauge instead, going for "max vac", but that might put things more at the rich side of the scale rather than the leanest it can be with the best idle quality at the same time.
A friend in our Mopar club had a '70 Road Runner 440+6 car that he drove and raced. All bone stock specs, just well-finessed. It would pass emissions for 1975 models without any catalytic converters when set to stock specs. That was in the early 1980s. With the greater oxygenates in the current fuels, might even do better?
Your car is not the first car with Federal specs that's been registered in CA. Nor will it be the last. Getting the letter from FCA is the easiest item to do, but getting the car to meet the CA specs on a test would be more difficult, in comparison. And that's probably where you end up, getting the test at an approved testing station (possibly operated by CHP?). Just a few extra hoops to jump through . . .
Keep us posted.
CBODY67
Last edited:
Other than the underhood labels, many CA-spec cars also had a little decal along the bottom of a rear side window. It stated that the car met particular specs of HC and CO for CA emissions. As if that was what the testers looked at to see if the car was in compliance when tested? A CA-spec car could be ordered and sold in other states, but CA-sold vehicles had to meet CA emissions specs (and have all of the related items to make that work), when new.
CBODY67
CBODY67
Here is another resource for broadcast sheets and their location www.maxwedge.com/articles/broadcast.php
Dave
I would recommend not taking your car to the DMV itself to have a "vehicle verification" inspection performed, rather, use an independent vehicle verifier who knows what to look for. All you need is to put a decal on your inner fender showing either federal or California emissions label (green/white is federal and blue/white is California). Just buy one of those labels and put it on the inner fender and they won't ask any more questions. The California DMV can be pretty dumb at times with some of their nutty questions, which are really aimed at newer vehicles perhaps from out of the country. Some of these inspectors at DMV are really not very bright and can't think for themselves (a trait of all Californians, right MarPar!).
If you were in So. California, I could recommend an independent vehicle verifier but you will need to ask around in your area to find one. Sometimes a local, non-California DMV office will know of one too. I never take my cars to DMV. That is just asking to be tortured. Send me a PM if you want some further ideas on how to get through the DMV process with an old car and I can give you a call to help out further. Steve
If you were in So. California, I could recommend an independent vehicle verifier but you will need to ask around in your area to find one. Sometimes a local, non-California DMV office will know of one too. I never take my cars to DMV. That is just asking to be tortured. Send me a PM if you want some further ideas on how to get through the DMV process with an old car and I can give you a call to help out further. Steve
GBsPanhead
Active Member
We don't smog check '74 and older cars in CA. The '69 300 I bought yesterday had a CA title and CA plates. Car came from Florida just 3 months ago. I didn't see any emissions stickers on my car. Hmmmmm
Jeremy MacDonald
New Member
Wow - now that's interesting. maybe I should drive to Nevada and register it there using a friend's address. Then bring it back to California and register it here three months or so later.
Jeremy MacDonald
New Member
Fantastic info - thanks very much. I'm going to re-read that a few times and make sure I have it all stored away. What about the guy who just bought his C-300 yesterday, all CA registered, yet it lived in Florida until 3 months ago and it has no stickers on the car? Makes me think perhaps I should take it to Oregon or Nevada and register it there first and then follow up a few weeks later with a CA registration. A bit of a PITA but if that's what it takes.............
Dan Scully
Well-Known Member
Actually it is 75 and older are exempt. Currently, smog inspections are required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs, electric, natural gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, motorcycles, trailers, or gasoline powered vehicles 1975 and older.
I have registered lots of out of state cars here , only thing required is a vin verification and weight if it is a commercial vehicle and a smog cert ( depending on the year for the smog cert) Where did the car came from?
GBsPanhead
Active Member
Yes, you are correct...1975. Will next year be 1976? For some reason I thought as years go by, the exempt year goes up too. 2018/1975, 2019/1976, 2020/1977 etc.
Jeremy MacDonald
New Member
It was built at Chrysler in Jefferson, Michigan and went up to Canada, stayed for its whole life until I imported it 2 yrs ago. All done properly using a customs brokerage, inspected to make sure all was original equipt, deemed to be exempt EPA and DOT, everything good at DMV except this final verification before the title doc can be issued.
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