440 Lean Burn
- Thread starter 77newyorker440
- Start date
USSMOPAR
Active Member
I cringe at some of the advice
How big is the budget?
Recam, raise comp ratio, new intake carb etc costs money
Do the math and cry
Best changes for the money are
Timing chain as i guarantee it is stretched
Remove the egr system and plug the holes in the intake
Block the intake manifold cross over with the correct pan
Install a mopar electronic distributor - preferably the one with the adjustable advance plate - get a copy of the mopar performance engine book - there are explicit instructions in there to install the electronic ignition in your specific vehicle Imagine that!
Set timing for 18 degrees btdc, all advance in no sooner then the lock up rpm of the converter. The engine should tolerate a lot of FULL ADVANCE so look for 36 or more total mechanical advance
Keep the t quad as it should only need some different rods to wake it up. Great underrated carburetor that acts like a six pak.
Dual exhaust with either type of crossover & stock mopar hemi mufflers
Torque converter change that stalls around 2200 rpm
3.21 gears with a 27 inch tall tire
Beware of high under-hood temps even if the gauge does not show hot - that is so overlooked in many threads. Use a 195 thermostat.
How big is the budget?
Recam, raise comp ratio, new intake carb etc costs money
Do the math and cry
Best changes for the money are
Timing chain as i guarantee it is stretched
Remove the egr system and plug the holes in the intake
Block the intake manifold cross over with the correct pan
Install a mopar electronic distributor - preferably the one with the adjustable advance plate - get a copy of the mopar performance engine book - there are explicit instructions in there to install the electronic ignition in your specific vehicle Imagine that!
Set timing for 18 degrees btdc, all advance in no sooner then the lock up rpm of the converter. The engine should tolerate a lot of FULL ADVANCE so look for 36 or more total mechanical advance
Keep the t quad as it should only need some different rods to wake it up. Great underrated carburetor that acts like a six pak.
Dual exhaust with either type of crossover & stock mopar hemi mufflers
Torque converter change that stalls around 2200 rpm
3.21 gears with a 27 inch tall tire
Beware of high under-hood temps even if the gauge does not show hot - that is so overlooked in many threads. Use a 195 thermostat.
Good comments!
Personally, I might prefer the initial timing be more like 15 degrees initial, but still aiming for a total of 38 degrees total. That amount has been the desired amount for B/RB Chryslers for decades, with the total top amount being 40 degrees BTDC. I ran our '66 Neewport 383 2bbl at 15 degrees (factory spec was 12.5) as a normal situation after I discovered it caused no problems in starting and such. In some instances, 36 might work better.
An 8.5CR motor WILL clatter with too much timing. I know the numbers might suggest it would not, due to the CR, but they will. My '77 Camaro 305 did and our '72 Mewport 400 2bbl did, too. I was using 93 pump octane name brand gas in the Camaro as I was seeking to tweak the timing for a bit better performance and optimize fuel economy. Just my experiences.
BEFORE swapping the torque converter, do a stall test first. You might discover that the factory converter is not that far from the rpm level mentioned. Check the FSM to see if it might have stall rpm specs in it, as the 1978 FSM does. When I saw them, I was astounded to see that some of the 4bbl HO engines had very loose converters, with stated stall speeds in the upper 2000rpm range. So check the specs and then see if your current converter is close to them, FIRST.
As the TF lock-up converter is mechanically operated by fluid va spring pressure, setting it to lock up at, more like, 53mph would be advisable (with the current 2.71 rear axle ratio and tall tires). That way, lock-up would occur at "road speed" more than something slower. Makes for a better experience, as it does in my '80 Newport 360 2bbl.
Many people tend to dismiss the factory intake manifolds just as they have done for years with Chevy motors, as not being very good. Just depends upon what you're seeking to accomplish. Certainly, the Edelbrock Performer is a better manifold that will support increased performance levels, but that doesn't automatically mean the factory intakes are "yunk" either. For general principles, compare how things look with the TQ intake runners and those of the B/RB 4bbls if 1970, for example. They all take the same intake gasket for the engine size, so the runner cross-section should be very similar, I suspect. We do know the Edelbrock 4bbl intakes have been the desired upgrade intake, though, since the DP4B and CH4B got Chrysler factory part numbers in 1968, so they'd be legal "stock" intakes for NHRA drag racing stock classes. And they also work well with "more cam". too.
By observation, Chrysler built "package motors", where the sum of the parts tended t be better-matched to each other so that better results happened. Cam works witih the heads, intake, CR, and such. Carb might seem a bit small when compared to others, but they worked well, generally, with the combination. At least in the earlier 1970s and prior, but according to the mid-70s Dealer Order Guides I looked at (back then), what really changed with the 8.2CR motors was the CR and tuning to meet emissions.
In our Mopar Club, we had some serious guys that believed more in Chrysler engineering and how the engines were configured. They had great results with just fine-tuning and finessing the STOCK configuration. We even had a standing challenge to any of the Brand X racers, but the deal was "stock exhaust, carburetor, and tire size", which the competitive Brand X guys did not have. They all had aftermarket carbs and headers, usually, which were needed on their engines. Following the old Direct Connection Race Manual on what to do and the related combination of parts, will get you to about 90% potential, with the final 10% being related to chassis and driving ability, by observation. With their recommendations coming from actual Chrysler testing, rather than a recommendation in a noted car magazine article.
What this might mean is to not take the approach of Brand X-ers that you have to throw out the stock items just to have a better running vehicle, when finessing the stock stuff first might be better than expected. PLUS, this might give you a better baseline from which to judge things in the future.
There IS a great knowledge base in this forum, as there was in the Mopar Club I've been in sincd it was formed in 1985. Do consider the total package of the various engine/vehicle builds and how they are used. As some of our guys discovered, what works for one might not work for all.
Thanks for the time. Y'all enjoy!
CBODY67
Personally, I might prefer the initial timing be more like 15 degrees initial, but still aiming for a total of 38 degrees total. That amount has been the desired amount for B/RB Chryslers for decades, with the total top amount being 40 degrees BTDC. I ran our '66 Neewport 383 2bbl at 15 degrees (factory spec was 12.5) as a normal situation after I discovered it caused no problems in starting and such. In some instances, 36 might work better.
An 8.5CR motor WILL clatter with too much timing. I know the numbers might suggest it would not, due to the CR, but they will. My '77 Camaro 305 did and our '72 Mewport 400 2bbl did, too. I was using 93 pump octane name brand gas in the Camaro as I was seeking to tweak the timing for a bit better performance and optimize fuel economy. Just my experiences.
BEFORE swapping the torque converter, do a stall test first. You might discover that the factory converter is not that far from the rpm level mentioned. Check the FSM to see if it might have stall rpm specs in it, as the 1978 FSM does. When I saw them, I was astounded to see that some of the 4bbl HO engines had very loose converters, with stated stall speeds in the upper 2000rpm range. So check the specs and then see if your current converter is close to them, FIRST.
As the TF lock-up converter is mechanically operated by fluid va spring pressure, setting it to lock up at, more like, 53mph would be advisable (with the current 2.71 rear axle ratio and tall tires). That way, lock-up would occur at "road speed" more than something slower. Makes for a better experience, as it does in my '80 Newport 360 2bbl.
Many people tend to dismiss the factory intake manifolds just as they have done for years with Chevy motors, as not being very good. Just depends upon what you're seeking to accomplish. Certainly, the Edelbrock Performer is a better manifold that will support increased performance levels, but that doesn't automatically mean the factory intakes are "yunk" either. For general principles, compare how things look with the TQ intake runners and those of the B/RB 4bbls if 1970, for example. They all take the same intake gasket for the engine size, so the runner cross-section should be very similar, I suspect. We do know the Edelbrock 4bbl intakes have been the desired upgrade intake, though, since the DP4B and CH4B got Chrysler factory part numbers in 1968, so they'd be legal "stock" intakes for NHRA drag racing stock classes. And they also work well with "more cam". too.
By observation, Chrysler built "package motors", where the sum of the parts tended t be better-matched to each other so that better results happened. Cam works witih the heads, intake, CR, and such. Carb might seem a bit small when compared to others, but they worked well, generally, with the combination. At least in the earlier 1970s and prior, but according to the mid-70s Dealer Order Guides I looked at (back then), what really changed with the 8.2CR motors was the CR and tuning to meet emissions.
In our Mopar Club, we had some serious guys that believed more in Chrysler engineering and how the engines were configured. They had great results with just fine-tuning and finessing the STOCK configuration. We even had a standing challenge to any of the Brand X racers, but the deal was "stock exhaust, carburetor, and tire size", which the competitive Brand X guys did not have. They all had aftermarket carbs and headers, usually, which were needed on their engines. Following the old Direct Connection Race Manual on what to do and the related combination of parts, will get you to about 90% potential, with the final 10% being related to chassis and driving ability, by observation. With their recommendations coming from actual Chrysler testing, rather than a recommendation in a noted car magazine article.
What this might mean is to not take the approach of Brand X-ers that you have to throw out the stock items just to have a better running vehicle, when finessing the stock stuff first might be better than expected. PLUS, this might give you a better baseline from which to judge things in the future.
There IS a great knowledge base in this forum, as there was in the Mopar Club I've been in sincd it was formed in 1985. Do consider the total package of the various engine/vehicle builds and how they are used. As some of our guys discovered, what works for one might not work for all.
Thanks for the time. Y'all enjoy!
CBODY67
- Carb pad height: 5.35". Manifold is 1.7" taller than stock
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