78 NYB Holley Sniper install.. the end of my lean burn fun

[73 T&C]

Question for you Sniper experts:

The way it came out of the box, all throttles open up together rather that progressively. It appears you can change it to progressive by changing the connection points on the provided link.

Wouldn’t progressive be more fuel efficient?
Also, wouldn’t progressive work better (i.e. more power to the ground through the correct gear when you ask for it) if coordinated with the kickdown?

I think all four just gives you a bogged engine.

I come back tomorrow and trans should be done or in process. I’ll let you know.

Also wiper transmission came in today and so did headlight sticker.

Thoughts?

 

[3175375]

Question for you Sniper experts:

The way it came out of the box, all throttles open up together rather that progressively. It appears you can change it to progressive by changing the connection points on the provided link.

Wouldn’t progressive be more fuel efficient?
Also, wouldn’t progressive work better (i.e. more power to the ground through the correct gear when you ask for it) if coordinated with the kickdown?

I think all four just gives you a bogged engine.

I come back tomorrow and trans should be done or in process. I’ll let you know.

Also wiper transmission came in today and so did headlight sticker.

Thoughts?

Maybe @angus66 has an opinion…

 

[fury fan]

I think I saw the all/progressive question somewhere on Holley's site or in a response on a Summit Q&A.
IIRC the answer was that all 4 was the intended setup.
And that makes sense, as the TPS and MAP sensors should dose the fuel properly either way, and that all 4 should provide better fuel distribution (theoretically).
But any engine/vehicle has the potential to lie outside the box.

Here's a comment I saw from someone on Summit's site:
Installed this on my 69 Chevelle in conjunction with the fitech fuel command center and installation was simple and straightforward. It fired right up and ran great...until trying to drive the car. The 1:1 ratio for the primary and secondary make the pedal very stiff and crazy touchy, nearly impossible to drive. Bought and installed the progressive linkage and the cable linkage extension and is now flawless. Holley really should have done these out of the box but it shouldn’t discourage you from using this. The self tuning takes time, a lot of ppl try and manually adjust it too soon, but the key is to leave it alone and let it learn!!! You will not be disappointed.

I don't know what he bought vs what you see looking at the linkage, but here's a search link. No obvious hits, though.
Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

The beauty of it all is - all you have to do is try it, the ECU learning will do the rest.

Is it controlling your ign timing, too?

 

[73 T&C]

I think I saw the all/progressive question somewhere on Holley's site or in a response on a Summit Q&A.
IIRC the answer was that all 4 was the intended setup.
And that makes sense, as the TPS and MAP sensors should dose the fuel properly either way, and that all 4 should provide better fuel distribution (theoretically).
But any engine/vehicle has the potential to lie outside the box.

Here's a comment I saw from someone on Summit's site:
Installed this on my 69 Chevelle in conjunction with the fitech fuel command center and installation was simple and straightforward. It fired right up and ran great...until trying to drive the car. The 1:1 ratio for the primary and secondary make the pedal very stiff and crazy touchy, nearly impossible to drive. Bought and installed the progressive linkage and the cable linkage extension and is now flawless. Holley really should have done these out of the box but it shouldn’t discourage you from using this. The self tuning takes time, a lot of ppl try and manually adjust it too soon, but the key is to leave it alone and let it learn!!! You will not be disappointed.

I don't know what he bought vs what you see looking at the linkage, but here's a search link. No obvious hits, though.
Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

The beauty of it all is - all you have to do is try it, the ECU learning will do the rest.

Is it controlling your ign timing, too?

Not controlling the timing.

What is the recommended time needed for learning?

 

[fury fan]

I don't know the answer on that, don't know if anybody would.
It's all based on how much time you spend at each of the locations on the fuel map (or VE map, whatever Holley calls it).
And if you think about it, as you put more and more miles on it - you'll either hit all the points, or the points you don't hit are ones you don't drive at anyway.


Here's a good read:
Learning Stage - Holley Performance Products Forums

 

[73 T&C]

The big reveal!!!!

Dual snorkel fresh air! The second hose finally arrived! Both are NIB replacements that match the original perfectly…. Down to the same imperfections.

Just like the factory only double. The fresh air, under normal load, comes in the same way as any other ‘78. But when the vacuum drops, the other snorkel comes into play.

Cool and very functional. Without cool air, the engine would ping. With the single snorkel it would only ping if I mashed it…. A little. I’m not crazy. With the new hose… mucho better. Even increased the timing this morning and…. Wow!

Car came back Tuesday with the slip cured. So I finally got to mash it a little.

The rear end on this thing is all about highway. Engine turns about 2300 at 70mph. So I guess it’s a 2.71:1 or lower rear end. I don’t know.

Here’s the engine side of the yoke placement. It was one of the reasons I pulled the inner fender to paint it.

Here’s the other side matching the original opposite placement.

Having fun dailing it in and getting it all working together.

Meantime, here are some pictures from the “special project”

First I got a dual Snorkel with the oval ends. I had no idea at the time that they would fit exactly with the fresh air adapters I scavenged off two original air cleaners I got. The original oval air horns a press fit and pop off with a little persuasion. I had to carefully drill it the spot welds holding the adapters.

After much careful pounding with a body hammer I was able to make them fit exactly.

An exact fit.

My wife sent me this to remind me I’ve always been outside working on one of my cars. It’s me with my oldest in the trunk of my Road Runner. She calls herself an antique car widow. She says she has Wayne Carrini’s number on speed dial for when hang it up.

Unfortunately, the lid was so far gone it wasn’t worth my time to refinish it.

I even got a new seal for it… here’s the old one coming out. Next post….

 

[73 T&C]

Continuing….

It was badly pitted.

Luckily my friend John (aka 75LandYacht ) had sent me a freshly powder coated lid just as I learned I needed one. Thanks John!

Paint goes on… satin black to match the lid. I found that rattle can paint goes on smoother in the sun when the humidity is up. It’s always at least 75% humidity here in South Florida.

And yes I took it all apart to paint it. Here are the baffle actuators. In case you’re wondering, it took two full cans of high temp paint to cover it with three coats. In the sun, the paint dried fairly quickly. First coat was more of a base misting for coverage not depth. Gave it 30 minutes before I came back for the second. This time for depth and complete coverage of the base orange. I again waited another 30 min before hitting it a third time for smoothness and depth. Very happy with results.

The hose adaptor ends were a very tight fit. I ended up using high temp epoxy to make sure they were even tighter. I had to tap them on with a wood block and rubber mallet after starting by hand.

All painted and about to be assembled.

All together now except for the hoses.

And here’s a little graphic appreciation of the Holley it will go on.

All done.

 

[75LandYacht]

Continuing….

View attachment 592603
It was badly pitted.
View attachment 592604
Luckily my friend John (aka 75LandYacht ) had sent me a freshly powder coated lid just as I learned I needed one. Thanks John!
View attachment 592605
Paint goes on… satin black to match the lid. I found that rattle can paint goes on smoother in the sun when the humidity is up. It’s always at least 75% humidity here in South Florida.
View attachment 592606
And yes I took it all apart to paint it. Here are the baffle actuators.
View attachment 592607
The hose adaptor ends were a very tight fit. I ended up using high temp epoxy to make sure they were even tighter.
View attachment 592608
All painted and about to be assembled.
View attachment 592609
All together now except for the hoses.
View attachment 592610
And here’s a little graphic appreciation of the Holley it will go on.
View attachment 592611

View attachment 592612
All done.

I’m honored Jav to have some skin in the game on such an epic project…. Looks FANTASTIC……

 

[75LandYacht]

Meant to ask.. what was the outcome of the Trans issue??

 

[73 T&C]

Next up is setting the kickdown.

First gear is imperceptible, second comes on at 10mph and third at 20mph. Regardless of throttle input. And yet it still moves much better than before. It takes a lot of pedal to get it to kick down…. I’d say at least 80% of travel. I think that’s way too much and not at all like my other TF’s in the herd. I’ll get it a little at a time. Right now, it takes about 1/4 throttle movement before the kickdown engages the throttle. I’ll start by halving that gap and see what the effect is.

Sniper report…..

Took it for a longish drive this evening…. About 30 miles. Nice evening with clear skies.

Engine temp never went above 205. The Sniper, when the engine was fully warmed up, began having trouble getting the idle down to the set 850rpm. It was too high at around 975rpm with IAC (Idle Air Control) reading at zero.

So I pulled over and adjusted the throttle down 1/4 turn until I got a reading on the IAC of about 8-12. Let’s see what happens tomorrow morning. Worked fine (as before) the rest of the way home.

Fascinating…., I think that perhaps my increase in timing may have had an effect. It now takes a noticeably less amount of throttle to get going and holding speed. I may have gotten it to the point that when warmed up, the Sniper ran out of idle air to cut.

TF report…

Whereas, before, I was seeing as much as 600rpm difference between engine power and drag through the transmission, now it’s around 300rpm which is what it is on my other TF’s.

Gentlemen: thoughts on setting for the kickdown please!

 

[73 T&C]

Meant to ask.. what was the outcome of the Trans issue??

I don’t know… tech came in at 11:00, drove it cold (worse symptoms) and had the shop put it on the lift. Ivan said he dropped the pan checked a few things, fiddled with it and closed it up before Ivan got back from lunch. Something about one of the check valves was not working right. Don’t know which one. It seems fine now.

I’ll call him next week to see if I can shed some light on it.

 

[73 T&C]

I don’t know… tech came in at 11:00, drove it cold (worse symptoms) and had the shop put it on the lift. Ivan said he dropped the pan checked a few things, fiddled with it and closed it up before Ivan got back from lunch. Something about one of the check valves was not working right. Don’t know which one. It seems fine now.

I’ll call him next week to see if I can shed some light on it.

To be fair, the trans was sent out to the trans shop which never mounted, drove or checked it installed. Had they gotten the car to do the rebuild, I’m sure they would have caught it, fixed it, and no one would have been the wiser.

 

[Boydsdodge]

Sounds like a great project. Please get your kick down set up correctly or you may/will burn up first bands.
Keep up with the great work.

 

[fury fan]

Engine temp never went above 205. The Sniper, when the engine was fully warmed up, began having trouble getting the idle down to the set 850rpm. It was too high at around 975rpm with IAC (Idle Air Control) reading at zero.

So I pulled over and adjusted the throttle down 1/4 turn until I got a reading on the IAC of about 8-12. Let’s see what happens tomorrow morning. Worked fine (as before) the rest of the way home.

Fascinating…., I think that perhaps my increase in timing may have had an effect. It now takes a noticeably less amount of throttle to get going and holding speed. I may have gotten it to the point that when warmed up, the Sniper ran out of idle air to cut.

I would agree, too much timing gave an idle speed that couldn't by controlled by reduction in IAC.

 

[fury fan]

The only thing better than your dual-snorkel setup is the effort you put to showing us how it was done.

Bravo!!!

 

[commando1]

I'm curious. Now that you have EFI, why did you keep the stovepipe setup.

 

[73 T&C]

Adjusted the kick down…about 3/16” of slack removed. Much better.

.

As it was

And as it is now….

Took it out for much needed gas…. At $4/gal

Ain’t she sweet….

One of my favorite views.

And then….

Fixed the damned wipers… again.

Went out and early voted in my local commission run off elections. That’s the candidate there between us.

Finally…. Cleaned up a new full size spare for the old girl.

Busy day. I’m now officially “Good Tired”. Good night!

 

[73 T&C]

I'm curious. Now that you have EFI, why did you keep the stovepipe setup.

Explain??? If you mean the fresh air, it’s because it’s 120 degrees cooler air going into the engine.

 

[73 T&C]

Printer failure…..close but no cigar.

Not sure if it was the printer or the file. Checked both and made some tweaks to the file.

Another 20 hours to go.

Also got some lettering for the air cleaner lid….. you knew I was going to do something there…..

J

 

[fury fan]

Depending on your vision for your aircleaner lid, you could consider one of these.
I got 2 from MartyMopar awhile back for a reasonable price, and he had several more IIRC.

Lid is from whatever years of 81-83 Imperial had EFI, of course.