Another Rear Drum Dragging Thread

[Pauly's67Polara]

Update: Brand new rear Timkin bearings...I needed it as they were bad and the car coasts & gildes much nicer now. It took out the wobble motion. Axle not bent. Brakes still hot.

My buddy made windows so we can see how they are reacting. (see pics). Seems like they just keep getting stuck without reason.. Did hydraulic test-again, not that. Removed ebrake completely-again, not that.

We are starting to think about the integrity and accuracy of the aftermarket shoes & drum. Centric 11x2 drum, Raybestos shoe 11x2. I can't find Wagner 334R on line anywhere for 11x2. No other manufacturer I can see makes drums other than Centric.

We here in VT are all stumped!
Any help wit these questions would be appreciated:

1. Does anyone know of a manuf other that Centric that makes a 11x2 drum?

2. Has anyone converted 11x2 to 11"x 2.5" ? Seems like 11"x2.5" parts are much more available.

2a. If so what needs to be changed to do this?

3. Has anyone done a conversion to disc?

3a. If so what's the good brand?

3b. Does the OEM 14" wheel still fit with a disc conversion kit?

Thank you all for any help that can be recommended!!!

 

[jct]

Now that's what i call vented drum brakes

 

[Zymurgy]

Still dealing with my brakes. Only my right side is dragging, I am going to change my 6 year old wheel cylinder on that side, still think that might be my issue. I have new shoes which I am going to install.

FYI I totally disconnected my emergency brakes too.

I will honestly be interested in the disc brake conversion too. If I still have issues after I do my brake job and replace the wheel cylinder.

 

[luigi164]

I've had the same problem, see this:
Rear brake is driving me nuts...

Did everything you did...at last, see last posts of the thread above. It was the solution for me

 

[stubs300]

I see no mention of your changing your rubber brake hose, have you done that? I bet that the inner wall of that hose is collapsing and not allowing fluid to return and unseat the brakes. Good Luck

 

[Davea Lux]

Update: Brand new rear Timkin bearings...I needed it as they were bad and the car coasts & gildes much nicer now. It took out the wobble motion. Axle not bent. Brakes still hot.

My buddy made windows so we can see how they are reacting. (see pics). Seems like they just keep getting stuck without reason.. Did hydraulic test-again, not that. Removed ebrake completely-again, not that.

We are starting to think about the integrity and accuracy of the aftermarket shoes & drum. Centric 11x2 drum, Raybestos shoe 11x2. I can't find Wagner 334R on line anywhere for 11x2. No other manufacturer I can see makes drums other than Centric.

We here in VT are all stumped!
Any help wit these questions would be appreciated:

1. Does anyone know of a manuf other that Centric that makes a 11x2 drum?

2. Has anyone converted 11x2 to 11"x 2.5" ? Seems like 11"x2.5" parts are much more available.

2a. If so what needs to be changed to do this?

3. Has anyone done a conversion to disc?

3a. If so what's the good brand?

3b. Does the OEM 14" wheel still fit with a disc conversion kit?

Thank you all for any help that can be recommended!!!

View attachment 297745

View attachment 297746

 

[Davea Lux]

1.) It is very unlikely that a brake drum would cause the brakes to hang up. There have been issues with the Centric drums being out of round, but that will not cause the brakes to hang up. An out of round drum will cause a pulsing of the brake pedal and if bad enough it will cause the wheel to intermittently lock up.
2.) The conversion to 11x2.5 brakes requires a different backing plate, the correct shoes and the correct drum, but this is a simple bolt on conversion. Wheel cylinders and the hardware is the same except for the anchor pins.
3.) Most disc conversions require a 15" wheel to clear the caliper.
4.) Master cylinders have been known to be miss boxed by folks overseas that do not speak English, that can cause a host of brake problems. Cars with discs on the front, should have pots of unequal sizes, large pot for discs and small pot for rear drums. A car with drum brakes on all 4 corners will have pots of equal sizes.
5. At his point, I would try backing off the travel rod adjustment about 1/2 turn to see if it makes any difference.
6.) If you installed Centric wheel cylinders, they are known to have quality control issues, check the cups and pistons to be sure that they move freely in the cylinder. You should be able to disassemble the cylinder and push the pistons thru the cylinder without any binding, if they bind, the cylinder likely has an out of spec or out of round condition that is causing it to hang up.

Dave

 

[stubs300]

If you want to keep your 14"ers, the only road I know is SSBC. That's who I went with. What's the deal with the rear rubber hose? Is it old or new? Good Luck

 

[Pauly's67Polara]

I see no mention of your changing your rubber brake hose, have you done that? I bet that the inner wall of that hose is collapsing and not allowing fluid to return and unseat the brakes. Good Luck

Hi Stubs...yes, it was the first thing I replaced actually for just that reason. In addition to the original parts, every single component from the master back was replaced and some twice with different brands:

2 new masters - Cardone, now Dorman
2 Distribution blocks - NOS Mopar then Mancini Racing
New hard lines
New soft line - Dorman
Cleaned brake line "T" thoroughly
2 sets of hardware - Raybestos now whatever NAPA gave me
2 sets of cylinders - Raybestos, now Dorman
2 sets of pads - Raybestos now whatever NAPA gave me
2 sets of drums - both Centric 12363005 (Both turned purple from the heat)
Almost 3 big bottles of DOT3
Rear bearings - Timken kit from Dr Diff
Inspected both axles

I am a former hockey player and consider myself a pretty tough guy...
but crying like a 2 year old seems like the next best move.

 

[Pauly's67Polara]

I've had the same problem, see this:
Rear brake is driving me nuts...

Did everything you did...at last, see last posts of the thread above. It was the solution for me

Hi Luigi,

Yes, I actually read every post regarding hot brakes before I posted so not to double up subjects. I immediately looked up wagner shoes and they didn't offer 11x2 and I believe the car on your avatar has 11x2.5, which makes sense. That's why I included a question on converting 11x2 to 11x2.5 drums and it looks like Dave Lux responded! Thank you Luigi!

 

[Pauly's67Polara]

If you want to keep your 14"ers, the only road I know is SSBC. That's who I went with. What's the deal with the rear rubber hose? Is it old or new? Good Luck

Hey Stubs,

Yes, I would like to keep the 14's. I love the original look and try to keep my vehicles as original as possible. I responded to your earlier post too...yes, the rubber hose is a new Dorman. We did 3 hydraulic tests and it passed all 3, so it's mechanical for sure. I am thinking that a combo of Luigi's and Dave's post's may be the culprit.

The manufacturers specs may be a little off because these brake parts are cross referenced with other years, models, classes (vans & trucks) and in some cases different makes of vehicles. I leaning towards trying to find 11x2.5 back plates and go with Wagner shoes and a non-Centric drum.

But if that's no good either...it's disc conversion time I think. Few questions Stubs:
Did you convert front and back with the SSBC's?
Are you happy with them?
Thank you buddy!

 

[Pauly's67Polara]

I’ve been away for two weeks so no chance to work on it. I’m proceeding with the hydraulic issue first and have ordered lines from the flex back. The flex itself looks rough so I’ll feel better having new lines. I will report back once that’s complete.
As for parking brake, the wheel turns freely after sitting for a day or two so (assuming a slow pressure release) so I don’t think that’s the issue.
I cleaned the backing plate and put grease on the contact points during the shoe replacement.

Hey Cruiser...When we tested the hydraulics, we made sure the shoe was still energized and popped the bleeder. If the pressure releases and the shoe retracts, it's hydraulic. (Just watch the flying fluid...I attached a hose and into a jug).

From your pics, I would replace that rubber hose. It was inexpensive and easy to change...The Dorman seems good. The distribution block for your 300 may have been used on different vehicles and some of these stores aren't aware, so they are not on their compatibility list. My CBody 67 Polara has an identical block to a B body car (Coronet/Belvidere), but the ONLY difference was in the mounting bracket. I bought the "BBody" block, tapped off the bracket of my old and the new and attached the new block to my old bracket. (See Pics).

To see if your block crosses with other models, download your car's parts manual: MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Parts & Accessories Books

Any questions, let me know Cruiser!

 

[Pauly's67Polara]

1.) It is very unlikely that a brake drum would cause the brakes to hang up. There have been issues with the Centric drums being out of round, but that will not cause the brakes to hang up. An out of round drum will cause a pulsing of the brake pedal and if bad enough it will cause the wheel to intermittently lock up.
2.) The conversion to 11x2.5 brakes requires a different backing plate, the correct shoes and the correct drum, but this is a simple bolt on conversion. Wheel cylinders and the hardware is the same except for the anchor pins.
3.) Most disc conversions require a 15" wheel to clear the caliper.
4.) Master cylinders have been known to be miss boxed by folks overseas that do not speak English, that can cause a host of brake problems. Cars with discs on the front, should have pots of unequal sizes, large pot for discs and small pot for rear drums. A car with drum brakes on all 4 corners will have pots of equal sizes.
5. At his point, I would try backing off the travel rod adjustment about 1/2 turn to see if it makes any difference.
6.) If you installed Centric wheel cylinders, they are known to have quality control issues, check the cups and pistons to be sure that they move freely in the cylinder. You should be able to disassemble the cylinder and push the pistons thru the cylinder without any binding, if they bind, the cylinder likely has an out of spec or out of round condition that is causing it to hang up.

Dave

Hi Davea,

Thank you for all this great info! I agree with the manufacturer's inconsistencies...I have commented on that in this thread above with some of the other guys. I may take a leap of faith and try to go with a 2.5" drum conversion before I get into the whole disc thing. Finding an 11x2 backing plate was impossible, so hopefully, the 11x2.5 will be easier. I bought the NOS mopar 11x2 shoes from ebay that were posted here, so that will be my last attempt to retain 11x2's. I am going to Carlisle, PA for the Mopar show, so I hope to find something there as well in an OEM drum and maybe the 11x2 and /or 2.5 backing plate...so confused.

It's driving me nuts and broke! I haven't been able to drive the car more than a mile since I bought it 3 years ago, so I'll try anything at this point to just get it done one way or another.

Thank you Davea...that was great stuff and a big help!!

 

[Davea Lux]

Hi Davea,

Thank you for all this great info! I agree with the manufacturer's inconsistencies...I have commented on that in this thread above with some of the other guys. I may take a leap of faith and try to go with a 2.5" drum conversion before I get into the whole disc thing. Finding an 11x2 backing plate was impossible, so hopefully, the 11x2.5 will be easier. I bought the NOS mopar 11x2 shoes from ebay that were posted here, so that will be my last attempt to retain 11x2's. I am going to Carlisle, PA for the Mopar show, so I hope to find something there as well in an OEM drum and maybe the 11x2 and /or 2.5 backing plate...so confused.

It's driving me nuts and broke! I haven't been able to drive the car more than a mile since I bought it 3 years ago, so I'll try anything at this point to just get it done one way or another.

Thank you Davea...that was great stuff and a big help!!

If you have the parts book for your car, you might look up the part number for the 2" and 2.5" backing plates, that way if someone has them it makes the search a little easier. www.mymopar.com has free downloads of the FSM and parts books. You will find the books in the Tools/Reference section.

Dave

 

[Pauly's67Polara]

If you have the parts book for your car, you might look up the part number for the 2" and 2.5" backing plates, that way if someone has them it makes the search a little easier. www.mymopar.com has free downloads of the FSM and parts books. You will find the books in the Tools/Reference section.

Dave

Thanks Dave, yes...I have it both on my computer and physically and Googled it 11x2 plate 2405 714-5 and 11x2.5 plate 2405 728-9. Nothing out there. I'm hoping to get lucky at Carlisle. Some of those guys don't deal with computers, so in effect, rely on these shows for sales. I have a buddy in Altona, NY they call "The Mopar Guy" who had a rear on his property for a CBody. He got it off of someone's lawn, so its pretty rusty, but he said he was going to take them off that for mr, but wasn't sure what car or sixe brakes it came off of. The only thing he sure of is that it's a 8 3/4 CBody rear. I'll just have to have it blasted if it works...Thank you Dave!

 

[Big_John]

@300cruiser

Has you checked the length of the brake rod going into the master cylinder? If it's too long, it will hold the brakes on slightly. Easiest way to check is to back off the nuts on the MC until it's a little loose and see if the brakes release. There may be a spec shown in the FSM as how far it needs to stick out, but we can figure that out if need be.

@Pauly's67Polara You really need to start your own thread about this. It's too confusing as both have different problems. Perhaps we can get @tallhair to split these up so both of you guys can be helped.

 

[mr. fix it]

What about the master cylinder?
If the plunger doesn’t return properly, it’s going to have residual pressure and cause the same thing as you are experiencing

 

[stubs300]

Hey Stubs,

But if that's no good either...it's disc conversion time I think. Few questions Stubs:
Did you convert front and back with the SSBC's?
Are you happy with them?
Thank you buddy!

Yes and yes. The reason why is because drums are getting harder to find as well as other parts. PST along time ago ran a sale and I jumped on it as the price was right. No fade or anything, I do notice that below 50 mph that they grab tons better then drums. I feel it's been my best upgrade to the vehicle by far. Good Luck

 

[1970cat]

do you have a better picture of the shoes against your windowed drum? in the pictures above the arc of the shoes doesn't look right.

 

[stain]

Interesting. I am fighting the same problem on my 64 Newport. Right rear drum gets super hot. New rear brakes this year also...….