Dont wanna burn up my car

[Big_John]

take that 60a ALT and get 2 50amp fuses and a piece of 10GA wire and run it from the ALT to the BATT with a fuse on each end.

I'm going to strong disagree on that one.

Your 10 ga wire is rated less than 50 amps. You want the fuses to be less than the circuit is capable of handling.

 

[saylor]

sir!

just going off the nacho plan. i cannot disagree a larger wire is better. and I have two seperate runs ran for some reason I just went and looked. I had to have read it all somewhere from someone doing it before me (nacho, slant6, crackedback, someone)

"...will use 8 gauge setup because my parallel alt wire is already 8 gauge, but honestly keeping the stock 12 gauge in use, 10 gauge is quite enough to the parallel..."

 

[saylor]

found it:

You can do it quickly and cheaply by running two 10ga wires with ring terminals at each end directly from the alternator's output terminal to the battery + terminal. Each of these 10ga wires must have two 50A fuses, one located within inches of the alternator output terminal and the other located within inches of the battery + terminal.

reference: 60 amp alternator too high? - Slant Six Forum

thats why i have 2 runs ran

 

[Rosco]

View attachment 429845
this is a quick cartoon of the functionality.
It is NOT gospel, but provides a high level of information so as to understand.
The purpose of the ammeter bypass is to reduce the heaviest electrical loads through it.
I likely have forgotten something and others will likely point that out. However, my aim is to get you understanding what is going on with the electrical system.
I hope that this helps.

This is great, thanks!! I plan to not do the ammeter bypass but will protect the connector studs w/ some kind of insulation- I was told they are exposed behind the dash. I feel like the 60 amp alt will be ok w/ my wiring but will take the precaution of changing to 8 or 10 AWG for the battery/alternator wire as suggested (thanks Saylor).
Looking forward to the fusible link detail...

 

[Rosco]

I have used Powermaster alternators and there is nothing special about them.
It’s good that you are checking into the details on their product. Continue doing that post what you heard. Regarding the loads and how it’s distributed I’ll try and put together a cartoon that shows what the system typically looks like. However, the specifics will be in your shop manual. Get one of those if you don’t have one.
I’ll try to post the cartoon response response to this message later today.

The alternator I'm looking into is the 'Tuff Stuff' one. I like it because it's all new. I need reliability so hoping it works well. The customer service rep. claimed 50% charge at idle. sounded like a good fit for me.

 

[Rosco]

Regarding the wire size, as I said, there's some discussion if the existing wiring is robust enough for a larger output alternator. Again, it's all about how much amperage the system needs that will determine wire size, not necessarily the source, but upsizing the wiring is a fairly gargantuan task. So, the best answer goes back to the bypass... that you don't want to do...

I think I'm just going to go for it (w/ the 60 amp unit). Apparently the a/c models in '68 had a 45 amp alt. stock so I think I'll be OK. I like this 'Tuff Stuff' unit as a) it's all new and b) they say it puts out 50% charge at idle. good stuff!

 

[Rosco]

Last things first, the voltmeter just plugs into the cigar lighter. BYW, in a Mopar, it's a cigar lighter. One of those things that differentiate us from the others. LOL.

Makes sense, after checking on some of the original literature that I have regarding the '68 Fury ll, I found that it's actually referred to as the "premium Cuban cigar lighter"

 

[Rosco]

Here's one. https://smile.amazon.com/LIHAN-Char...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

This looks great, thanks for the lead! HOwever, they don't mention "Cuban cigars" anywhere in their description... I will contact the manufacturer tomorrow to see if this unit is compatible

 

[saylor]

duralast 7001 reman ALT, just have them test it before you leave the store.

Cover those ammerter studs with electrical tape then shrink wrap that it will outlast all of us.

- saylor

 

[Rosco]

found it:

You can do it quickly and cheaply by running two 10ga wires with ring terminals at each end directly from the alternator's output terminal to the battery + terminal. Each of these 10ga wires must have two 50A fuses, one located within inches of the alternator output terminal and the other located within inches of the battery + terminal.

reference: 60 amp alternator too high? - Slant Six Forum

Damn, just read that post. That guy sure thought the 60 amp unit was too big... If 45 is stock I can't imagine a 60 will fry everything?!

 

[Big_John]

sir!

just going off the nacho plan. i cannot disagree a larger wire is better. and I have two seperate runs ran for some reason I just went and looked. I had to have read it all somewhere from someone doing it before me (nacho, slant6, crackedback, someone)

"...will use 8 gauge setup because my parallel alt wire is already 8 gauge, but honestly keeping the stock 12 gauge in use, 10 gauge is quite enough to the parallel..."

found it:

You can do it quickly and cheaply by running two 10ga wires with ring terminals at each end directly from the alternator's output terminal to the battery + terminal. Each of these 10ga wires must have two 50A fuses, one located within inches of the alternator output terminal and the other located within inches of the battery + terminal.

reference: 60 amp alternator too high? - Slant Six Forum

thats why i have 2 runs ran

I think it's not worded correctly or we're not on the same page.

The way I'm reading that is you end up with two 10 ga wires, with a 50 amp fuse at the end of each wire for a total of four 50 amp fuses.

A 10 ga wire is only good for 30 - 35 amps, depending on the material, insulation type etc. Less than 50 amps no matter what.

Now... If you double the wire, something often done to make it easier to run the wire, you effectively double the amount of current that you can safely flow through the circuit. So that would be 60-70 amps. If you double the wire and add a single 50 amp fuse at each end (total of two fuses), that would make sense.

 

[cbarge]

 

[saylor]

I think it's not worded correctly or we're not on the same page.

The way I'm reading that is you end up with two 10 ga wires, with a 50 amp fuse at the end of each wire for a total of four 50 amp fuses.

A 10 ga wire is only good for 30 - 35 amps, depending on the material, insulation type etc. Less than 50 amps no matter what.

Now... If you double the wire, something often done to make it easier to run the wire, you effectively double the amount of current that you can safely flow through the circuit. So that would be 60-70 amps. If you double the wire and add a single 50 amp fuse at each end (total of two fuses), that would make sense.

yes sir i stopped everything and went and checked. i dont want to be in disagreement with Mr Big John, and i dont want roscoe to die in mexico in a ammeter fire.

i have 2x50 circuits - so 2 wires with 4 fuses total. fuesd on ALT side and BATT side.

 

[Rosco]

I'm going to cool it on upgrading wires until I get a chance to peruse the info. and fully understand the charging circuit. NOt even sure which wires I am proposing to replace are!! Ha!!!!

 

[Rosco]

yes sir i stopped everything and went and checked. i dont want to be in disagreement with Mr Big John, and i dont want roscoe to die in mexico in a ammeter fire.

i have 2x50 circuits - so 2 wires with 4 fuses total. fuesd on ALT side and BATT side.
View attachment 430063

Yo Saylor,
didn't u go nuclear w/ a like 140 amp alternator? I read that post you linked me where you were figuring out how much load you had, etc.
I'm thinking the stock wiring is ok for a 60.
Although, I'd consider a new (not a reman.) 45 with good low rpm output. I just looked at the 60 and the rep. says 50% output at idle. Sounds good.

 

[Rosco]

View attachment 430062

You're probably right...
I was all ready to pull the trigger on new vr (from FuryGT) and buy this 60 amp unit but Bill mentioned that my wiring "may not" be adequate for a 60. Sooo, thought I'd get some feedback on issues w/ the 60 from the fourm.
I really don't want to do the fricking ammeter bypass. I like the old ammeter. Needle all flapping around. I love that fricking thing!!

 

[cbarge]

I'm with Big John--figure out what the heck is going on first.
It's your car and I respect you do what you want to it.

In my thread,I shared what works for me and others that needed help.
Currently (pun intended) I am running a 90 amp Powermaster alternator,doubled up wiring with fusible links,and an electronic voltage regulator that is capable handling the 90,with the ammeter bypass and headlamp relays.
No problems and many miles put on the car.
Cheers!!

 

[3175375]

I think it's not worded correctly or we're not on the same page.

The way I'm reading that is you end up with two 10 ga wires, with a 50 amp fuse at the end of each wire for a total of four 50 amp fuses.

A 10 ga wire is only good for 30 - 35 amps, depending on the material, insulation type etc. Less than 50 amps no matter what.

Now... If you double the wire, something often done to make it easier to run the wire, you effectively double the amount of current that you can safely flow through the circuit. So that would be 60-70 amps. If you double the wire and add a single 50 amp fuse at each end (total of two fuses), that would make sense.

I am not fond of this idea of using more than 1 wire between the alternator output and the battery. Nor do I see the need for any fuse, fusible link or other protective device.

I think that the original poster needs to slow way down and do some research and get to the point of further understanding what is needed, what safety precautions are needed and what are advised (desired, but not required) if you are to do anything with the electrical system besides keeping it stock.

There. I said it.

 

[Rosco]

Thanks, and I agree that there is some restrictions that might cause some issues for best performance, I think you agree that it really comes down getting it all right first before making mods.... and I also will make the argument that it isn't the ammeter itself as a stand alone culprit as so many seem to think. The ammeter in these cars is a pretty robust piece. IMHO, the issue lies with the connections to the alternator. The bolt on connections on the back being one along with all the others in the chain.

On cars like my '70, there's a connection under the steering column where it is known to fail and bypassing it with a "solid" connection eliminates a lot of issues, but that connection, while far removed from the ammeter in location has still been seen as the dreaded ammeter, because it's in the circuit. See what I mean?

Yo Big John! I feel like we've been to Mars and back with this thread but I'm ready to pull the trigger on an alternator and am getting a bit bummed out on availability. I've looked high and low and it looks like the lowest output model I can find for my fury that is new (not a reman.) is 60 amp. I'd really prefer to go this route. I've had rebuilt parts forever from Sherba's then Kragen's, Oreilly's , Napa, Auto Zone and have had many parts actually be bad right out of the box. I don't want to go there if I can avoid it. I've purchases two solid state regulators (from FuryGT) which can handle that load (60 amp) but we're back to the whole ammeter stole the Lindberg baby scenario...
I'd like to upgrade the wiring in the whole charging circuit to 8 or 10 AWG. I'm talking from the alternator through the vr, firewall, ammeter and back to the battery, the whole shooting match. I know there's less voltage drop in a dc circuit the bigger the wires are- good, but mainly to alleviate the potential overloading/heating up/fire from 50+ year old stock wires everyone's talking about..
I still want to keep the ammeter which under this program becomes the weak link... YOu mentioned above that you thought the whole fire thing was more with the wires and connectors; how do you feel about leaving the ammeter in the circuit but with nice big, new, soldered, happy wires? I'm inclined to go for it under those circumstances but looking on Ebay some guys list my ammeter as "40 amp". Which seems odd since the a/c models of my year Fury came stock with a 45 amp alternator. I'd bet the wiring harnesses were the same for both models (non-a/c, w/ a/c).
Btw, not holding you to this but what're your thoughts?

 

[3175375]

Yo Big John! I feel like we've been to Mars and back with this thread but I'm ready to pull the trigger on an alternator and am getting a bit bummed out on availability. I've looked high and low and it looks like the lowest output model I can find for my fury that is new (not a reman.) is 60 amp. I'd really prefer to go this route. I've had rebuilt parts forever from Sherba's then Kragen's, Oreilly's , Napa, Auto Zone and have had many parts actually be bad right out of the box. I don't want to go there if I can avoid it. I've purchases two solid state regulators (from FuryGT) which can handle that load (60 amp) but we're back to the whole ammeter stole the Lindberg baby scenario...
I'd like to upgrade the wiring in the whole charging circuit to 8 or 10 AWG. I'm talking from the alternator through the vr, firewall, ammeter and back to the battery, the whole shooting match. I know there's less voltage drop in a dc circuit the bigger the wires are- good, but mainly to alleviate the potential overloading/heating up/fire from 50+ year old stock wires everyone's talking about..
I still want to keep the ammeter which under this program becomes the weak link... YOu mentioned above that you thought the whole fire thing was more with the wires and connectors; how do you feel about leaving the ammeter in the circuit but with nice big, new, soldered, happy wires? I'm inclined to go for it under those circumstances but looking on Ebay some guys list my ammeter as "40 amp". Which seems odd since the a/c models of my year Fury came stock with a 45 amp alternator. I'd bet the wiring harnesses were the same for both models (non-a/c, w/ a/c).
Btw, not holding you to this but what're your thoughts?

You need to learn how to have the wiring for your charging circuit SHOULD be configured and wired. For example, the voltage regulator doesn’t need heavy gauge wire to and from it.
Stop and learn how it works first, before buying or changing ANYTHING.