Heil Obama

I believe that our Social Security system is working reasonably well, and am glad we have it, although when it was being adopted many years ago, many complained about socialism/communism, etc, so this reaction from so many now to the affordable care act is not surprising. When companies like Wal-Mart, Mc Donalds, (and the list goes on) refuse to pay a decent wage despite taking in billions in profits like never before and then tell their employees to better budget their paltry wages to make ends meet and tell them how to obtain government aid, there is something fundamentally wrong. The rich no longer pay their fair share, including corporate taxes, through loopholes they obtained from lobbying elected officials in government that they support with campaign contributions. Not everyone who is poor is a freeloader unwilling to work. Sometimes life doesn't go the way we might like and health problems come up. I believe that if people work and pay into the system, just like Social Security, then there ought to be a basic safety net for them when medical issues arise as that would be preferable to treating them when it is too late in emergency rooms. Like Fc7_Plumcrazy, I don't mind paying more if I make more than a guy that isn't as well off, just so everyone can get basic healthcare. I do not see it as me getting screwed. I just count my blessings that I do not need the care. And I also feel that we are all in this together, and pointing fingers at each other and labeling others we really do not know, just divides our country and eventually destroys it. Compassion for others is important and the world is never so black and white as so many lately seem to view it.

I fully agree.
The world isn't black and white.
And if some rich people with a high income pay less tax then some middle class guys: There are way too many holes in the system.

When I heared last year that Romney paid less taxes in previous years than some average guys: The system is working badly.
 
Obama wants to mold the US into "Europe in the west". Europeans love socialism because they've never known anything else. Throughout history they have lived under some type of subjugation, from one despot to another, over a millennium of time. Thus, the European mindset is one that is content to follow in exchange for relative peace.


Europeans love socialism? Huh? Are you McCarthy, Gary?
Some countries in western europe had despots but these times are over since more than 65 years in western europe. All western countries of europe live in permanent democracy. Many of them since hundreds of years.

In other thoughts: My girlfriend and I currently own 16 old Mopars, including two Hemi cars, 440-6 cars, several 440-4speed cars as well as five fuselage c-bodys. I have got 6 weeks holiday a year, health insurance, a big social security system.
If this is socialsim; Great ! :)))
 
Socialism and Democracy are two different things.

Gary's point was that it was an easier transition to big government for Europeans than it would be for Americans.

As for the system being broken - Yes, it is. How do you think those rich and/or businesses got those loopholes? They bought the swing in government to do it and the progressive era "reforms" did away with the Senate's ability to check that nonsense.
 
Europeans love socialism? Huh? Are you McCarthy, Gary?
Some countries in western europe had despots but these times are over since more than 65 years in western europe. All western countries of europe live in permanent democracy. Many of them since hundreds of years.

In other thoughts: My girlfriend and I currently own 16 old Mopars, including two Hemi cars, 440-6 cars, several 440-4speed cars as well as five fuselage c-bodys. I have got 6 weeks holiday a year, health insurance, a big social security system.
If this is socialsim; Great ! :)))
Glad you have all that mopar iron. You must be doing something right over there. MPTY
However, here's a little something from a fellow from Denmark re: European socialism. Doesn't sound at all like what you've described.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/10/25/european-socialism-why-america-doesnt-want-it/
When compared to Europe, the US has never been under any type of subjugation from an element from outside it's borders since colonial times. Our declaration of Independence from Britain was hard fought, and paid with much blood. I think that is why even today we become extremely sensitive to anybody telling us how to live, even from our own government....which is worse.
 
When I heared last year that Romney paid less taxes in previous years than some average guys: The system is working badly.

Romney doesn't collect a paycheck, he's living off dividends the government has already taken a 37-38%. That technically puts him over a 50% tax rate, where's the "fairness" in that? What's "fair" in 47% of the country not paying a dime in taxes, and collecting huge "refunds"?

FWIW I am not wealthy, and I wouldn't even consider myself middle class, making less than $40k per year. I have no problem with those that are successful, and I am extremely happy and proud to have been born in a country where my ability to become successful is only limited my talents. Yes I really do believe that!
 
Romney doesn't collect a paycheck, he's living off dividends the government has already taken a 37-38%. That technically puts him over a 50% tax rate, where's the "fairness" in that? What's "fair" in 47% of the country not paying a dime in taxes, and collecting huge "refunds"?

FWIW I am not wealthy, and I wouldn't even consider myself middle class, making less than $40k per year. I have no problem with those that are successful, and I am extremely happy and proud to have been born in a country where my ability to become successful is only limited my talents. Yes I really do believe that!
As do I...and I plan to be stinking rich someday and I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me what I can and can't do with my money....that I earned.
 
Romney doesn't collect a paycheck, he's living off dividends the government has already taken a 37-38%. That technically puts him over a 50% tax rate, where's the "fairness" in that? What's "fair" in 47% of the country not paying a dime in taxes, and collecting huge "refunds"?

FWIW I am not wealthy, and I wouldn't even consider myself middle class, making less than $40k per year. I have no problem with those that are successful, and I am extremely happy and proud to have been born in a country where my ability to become successful is only limited my talents. Yes I really do believe that!

You must get your "facts" from Fox news as well - witness the sites referenced in other posts in this thread. Romney even acknowledged he only paid 19%, and that is just on the money he didn't squirrel away in other countries. While the middle class pays on the order of 30%. We won't even get into the carried interest and other loopholes he utilizes. Fox news focuses the laser beam on the "entitled" poor who have no voice, all to deflect the focus from all the money in this country going to the top richest people. While the middle class gets only more deep in debt - the banks love that! This, after the banks caused the depression we are still trying to work our way out of. Talk about control! The problem with unbridled capitalism is that it is taking away democracy. A strong middle class is what made this country great and now we are in serious decline. Capitalism is great, but it is now unbridled with the rich buying the politicians and the mind of so many people through their owned "news" networks and campaign contribution front groups. And companies making profits like they haven't seen in years, yet the workers are not sharing in the profits - and pensions are a thing of the past. The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. In some parts of Europe, at least, the middle class is still watching the ball and that is why many of their economies are doing well. And they are the ones buying most of our special interest cars these days (I know because virtually all the ones I have sold on ebay recently have gone overseas). Very few of the sales of these cars go to the U.S. anymore, because few can afford to buy, much less restore our Mopars anymore. Maybe that is why so many seemingly frustrated people must be spending most of their waking hours posting on this website?
 
Did Ronmey break the law? NO, he did not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sheltering your money...NOTE, this is NOT the same as tax evasion, not even close.
 
Did Ronmey break the law? NO, he did not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sheltering your money...NOTE, this is NOT the same as tax evasion, not even close.

Really? I didn't say he broke the law (although he probably helped make it), I just said in no other country that I am aware of do the rich pay less taxes proportionally than the middle or low income classes. That is why we are in such bad shape in the middle class, the poor probably can't pay much taxes and the rich do not pay their fair share, so the middle class takes the beating. I guess my point is hard to understand?? Even historically in the U.S. have the rich paid such a low proportion of their wealth in taxes. And that is just the portion that resides in the U.S.
 
Commieparty.png


It's my party, and I'll cry if I want to... You would cry too if it happened to you
 
Here we go with this "fair share" horse pile. Please explain to me what is a "Fair Share"??? What does that mean? What percentage is a "fair share"?? Who determines what is a "fair share"? "Fair share" is code for "wealth redistribution".
 
Here we go with this "fair share" horse pile. Please explain to me what is a "Fair Share"??? What does that mean? What percentage is a "fair share"?? Who determines what is a "fair share"? "Fair share" is code for "wealth redistribution".
All I am saying is that when our economy is still faltering and so many people are struggling, the proportion of taxes paid by the rich is at a historic low, and in most other European countries that I am aware of at least, the proportion of taxes paid is proportional to peoples income, with the more wealthy paying more proportionately. It has been this way in the capitalist U.S. for the last 50 years at least, and most likely before that if I could find figures that go back that far. But now, in the time of need no less, the wealthy are paying much less proportionally than any time in the last 50 years. This has been achieved by politicians making laws at the behest of the wealthy who finance their campaigns more than ever now that the Supreme Court opened the door recently in Citizens United. And even though many companies are thriving, wages remain stagnant or declining. I note the comments by some truck drivers here that their companies can afford new trucks, but their wages remain below a sustainable level compared to the past. Our nation has thrived in the past when things were not so imbalanced and the middle class drove the overall economy. That is obviously not happening now. And the big banks are just out of control. And by the way, the term used by Fox News to mute this reality is "class warfare". That seems to work pretty well for them as a comeback and deflect the reality that is taking place today.
 
Here we go with this "fair share" horse pile. Please explain to me what is a "Fair Share"??? What does that mean? What percentage is a "fair share"?? Who determines what is a "fair share"? "Fair share" is code for "wealth redistribution".

I typically avoid political debates such as this but I will simply say I have no idea what a fair rate should be but I think all should pay the same percentage. In a system that in concept is percentage based all should pay the same percentage, this should not be a bell curve.

Alan
 
All I am saying is that when our economy is still faltering and so many people are struggling, the proportion of taxes paid by the rich is at a historic low, and in most other European countries that I am aware of at least, the proportion of taxes paid is proportional to peoples income, with the more wealthy paying more proportionately. It has been this way in the capitalist U.S. for the last 50 years at least, and most likely before that if I could find figures that go back that far. But now, in the time of need no less, the wealthy are paying much less proportionally than any time in the last 50 years. This has been achieved by politicians making laws at the behest of the wealthy who finance their campaigns more than ever now that the Supreme Court opened the door recently in Citizens United. And even though many companies are thriving, wages remain stagnant or declining. I note the comments by some truck drivers here that their companies can afford new trucks, but their wages remain below a sustainable level compared to the past. Our nation has thrived in the past when things were not so imbalanced and the middle class drove the overall economy. That is obviously not happening now. And the big banks are just out of control. And by the way, the term used by Fox News to mute this reality is "class warfare". That seems to work pretty well for them as a comeback and deflect the reality that is taking place today.
Class Warfare sums it up exactly.
 
I typically avoid political debates such as this but I will simply say I have no idea what a fair rate should be but I think all should pay the same percentage. In a system that in concept is percentage based all should pay the same percentage, this should not be a bell curve.

Alan
Bingo.....but as you can see that would not be enough for liberals or socialists. You see its becoming a sin to be "rich" or "wealthy" in this country anymore. People want what you've worked long and hard for because there's no way you can deserve it.
 
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