cm23uoc
Old Man with a Hat
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2011
- Messages
- 8,368
- Reaction score
- 3,445
No problem, he now resides at Challenger Life Forums 
Looking at a Hellcat
- Thread starter 1978 NYB
- Start date
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I think Peter scarred him off with dollars and cents insurance talk on a over the top car like the Hellcat.
300rag
It's Not Going to Shift Itself
The sad part about that is, the insurance on a Hellcat Challenger is less than what my rate is for my 1500. Makes no sense to me given the same coverages and limitations.
Maybe the answer is a V12 with even number cylinders setup for diesel and odd number cylinders for gasoline.
Dave, I think you got me a little wrong, as I really believe there is a market for light duty diesels (I even love the way they perform especially with loads). My only point it that providing one that replicates the old and very loved ones (not by the people that have to follow these old ones in traffic though) is going to be all but impossible given the emission hurdles, complexity, cost and reliability problems they yet face. I could see technology with gasoline engines even in the 70s that was a path to success, but I do not see a success path for diesels with emission controls in the light duty segment. The fuel is just too difficult to clean up to be worth the effort it seems if you have to sell to anyone who thinks they need one and use it like an old person that only uses it for going to the market on cold days as a potential driving pattern. I see a more clear path for gasoline engines to meet diesel efficiency in the future, but they will even be displaced by EVs in light duty due to government mandates around the world to address global warming, whether you believe it it or not. Even U.S. manufacturers will not survive making gasoline engines if the only market in which they can legally be sold is the U.S. (at least while Trump is in place) because the sales volumes here alone are not sustainable economically. Ford has already said they will no longer invest in gasoline engines after circa 2022.
Last edited:
330dTA
Senior Member
My dd, a ’06 BMW 330, has the M57 turbodiesel, which some regarded as the best engine in the world back in the day. It’s a great engine, gives 605 Nm & 267 hp at rear wheels. With a little help from a chip, a DPF delete, and a sport exhaust. Pulls nicely off the stoplights. Gives great mileage on the highway, too. Constant 36 mpg at steady 75 mph, which seems to be near its sweet spot. But it only gets about 17 mpg in city traffic in wintertime. I keep constant record of the consumption numbers so they are accurate. And you can smell the fumes in the city at every stoplight. Therefore my next dd will be a hybrid with a gasoline. Unless I bounce into a tremendous deal on a second-hand Tesla Model S.
What has this to do with looking at a Hellcat? Nada - let’s get back to the subject.
What has this to do with looking at a Hellcat? Nada - let’s get back to the subject.
Last edited:
Nope, price for the Hellcat and what they offered for my 300 was too far off. I could of kept both but having two new car payments didn't make much sense to me.
1Fury1
Slab Side Slacker
I get what you're saying Graham my son and son in law both have 2012's for that reason, however I would add that having owned pretty well every generation of Cummins pickup over the years I'd have to say that aside from the old 12V which was drop dead reliable but rode like a stoneboat and not a real powerhouse, my current 2014 3500 with the AISIN tranny is far and away the favorite. Best fuel mileage, best power, best comfort and driveability, heavier frame, (I experienced the death wobble in my 98 dually). The combination of the built in jake and heavier tranny this 2014 hauls *** with 14000 lbs behind, and me being hard of hearing it's got the quietest cab by far meaning if I choose to listen to her I can actually hear what she's saying. Obviously maintenance is key on any diesel, especially changing fuel filters regularly, and I don't mind throwing a jug in the piss tank every now and again. Cross my fingers so far no problemo.
My engine rebuilder bought a new 2017 Ram 3500 Longhorn Laramie crewcab longbed with dual wheels and he loves it. He bought it 10 months ago. He can't say enough about its power and good fuel economy, but then it doesn't have many miles on it either. He opened the door of the cab to show me the interior, and it looks like a luxury car inside, and the smell of leather was very present standing outside the cab several feet. It was immaculate and its presence was amazing. Must be an $80K truck!
The truck was all white with a two tone brown/tan interior, and the vehicle was spotless. But then, he is more pedantic than I am, which is why he has my business. I was glad to hear he is making payments on it, otherwise I might think he must be charging too much for his work, but I have compared prices, and he can't be beat for quality of work/value.
The truck was all white with a two tone brown/tan interior, and the vehicle was spotless. But then, he is more pedantic than I am, which is why he has my business. I was glad to hear he is making payments on it, otherwise I might think he must be charging too much for his work, but I have compared prices, and he can't be beat for quality of work/value.
Last edited:
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I think you are not seeing the market segment. I like my wife's Jeep G.C. and I could use it since it has a Hemi in it to tow my car to the track or a good size boat to river or lake. She drives like 30 mile each way to work times $3 a gallon that's $6 to go to and $6 to come home, a eco diesel would be $4 each way not a huge savings but some. The kink in the armor is a Prius or other hybrid will not do the weekend work, neither would a 3.6 gas engine. I could buy a dually but my wife does not want to drive something that big and it would not fit in the house garage meaning she is defrosting windshields and cleaning snow off a big vehicle. I don't know if you have ever been married but, that would be a lesson in how to make your life miserable.
I am not a one off in this, I see a lot of mom's in giant SUVs which if they had a medium diesel in them would get better than 12-15 and these things are not single short tripping it they go half the morning and all afternoon.
You will never get the fuel economy out of a gas engine except maybe in the lab. The run on completely different principals. Diesels run not by choking air out to control engine speed they just remove fuel, so idle and low load % they use almost no fuel, also the fuel has more BTUs per pound. They will sort it because the heavy duty market will solve it and it will trickle down. The market is there in the rest of the planet it is just North America that has a stigma with Diesel fuel. When these younger types that have watched and grew up on 5.9 Cummins and 7.3 powerstroke get into their 40s and 2 one ton dually pu are no longer practical they will be looking for something other than a gas engine suburban getting 16-17 mpg. Sorry Steve but your wrong on this. Hybrids are a environmental problem waiting to come home to roost, electric vehicle's (which you know I'm a fan of) cannot do the weekend heavy haul crap. A half ton gas engine pu or good sized SUV is just never going to get mid 20s on fuel mileage, maybe in Kansas, Nebraska, northern pan handle of Texas, but only going east
I am not sure why we are not communicating on this one as usually we see eye to eye. I will say again that I do not disagree that there is a market for light duty diesels, especially in light duty pickups, for all the reasons you have stated. Again, my only point is that I see problems with using them in daily drives that are short trips especially in cold weather - i.e. the wrong buyer. Getting the emission systems to perform reliably over many miles with short driving patterns will continue to plague the engineers for some time yet. One of the reasons FCA got in trouble with their 3.0 diesel is that they did not disclose some of their auxiliary emission control devices - and from what I read, they at least didn't disclose that they shut down urea dosing of the selective catalytic converter under some heavy sustained load conditions such as climbing grades, causing excess nitrogen oxide emissions - and were caught when tested in use on the road. They probably didn't disclose their disabling the dosing because sustained dosing of the urea SCR system would likely yield a short life for it, resulting in excess emission at high miles, and more frequent replenishment of the urea (DEF) and expensive replacement of the SCR catalyst before one would expect when the check engine light comes on - (if they didn't cheat on that calibration as well). Bottom line again, is that emission controls on diesels are hard to manage under all conditions, so they are on a banana peel in terms of being sustainable for the future, more so in light duty applications compared to heavy duty.
VW wouldn't have taken the huge risk they did on their light duty diesel vehicles unless there were some very difficult and expensive problems yet to overcome. Regulators will not accept excess emissions and the public won't accept vehicles that are not reliable and/or expensive to maintain over the vehicle life. That is why older diesel vehicles are in such demand now. Only point I am trying to make is that there are yet serious problems to overcome - thats all.
VW wouldn't have taken the huge risk they did on their light duty diesel vehicles unless there were some very difficult and expensive problems yet to overcome. Regulators will not accept excess emissions and the public won't accept vehicles that are not reliable and/or expensive to maintain over the vehicle life. That is why older diesel vehicles are in such demand now. Only point I am trying to make is that there are yet serious problems to overcome - thats all.
This is what I've been wondering. I know they use diesels in cars all over Europe, why are we so afraid over here?
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I think that is what Steve see's everytime these diesel threads pop up.
VW is abandoning diesels in the light duty market and European nations are also talking of banning light duty diesels from city centers in the future. I don't get the reasoning here. Who wouldn't like diesel for its strengths - I have said repeatedly now that I don't hate them, but only am saying the future looks bleak if they have to meet emission standards? And to keep them clean in some light duty applications means a lot of warranty work or customer pay work (more likely) to keep replacing the ridiculously complex and expensive emission controls (they still have to get through smog check to register them in many states). If you like saving money on fuel expenses with diesel, will you still like it so much when you have to keep endlessly replacing the filter, the sensors, the SCR system and keep the DEF tank full (or the vehicle won't start by design) etc. Penny wise, pound foolish. But if you think the 3.0 Dodge offering or the one announced by Ford today or even the GM light duty diesel will solve all these problems, be my guest. The dealers will love to hose you, well, with one exception in Canada maybe! I personally will do everything I can to avoid having to deal with a dealer service department. I guess you guys are different.
Last edited:
I like the 300 a lot. It is comfortable and handles well. It just doesn't have 707 hp. LOL. If the dollar numbers for the Hellcat and the 300 shifted enough....I would be driving the Hellcat. I thought there was a lot more margin to work with on the Hellcat. There is not much. I couldn't believe the loss of value on a car with 4,000 miles.
MarPar
Meat Man with a Hat
The day after I looked at the Hellcat.....
I was at the Post Office on Aberdeen Proving Ground and someone ran into the back of the 300 while it was parked. She was going to take off but seen someone in her rear view mirror taking a picture of her leaving the scene. She backed up and scribbled a B.S. note and left it under the wiper blade. She conveniently left one digit off the phone number. I called the Military Police and forwarded the picture of the car and license plate and they knew who it was before they drove the 4 blocks from the MP Station. She was cited for fleeing the scene of an accident and not making a reasonable attempt to contact the owner of property damage. I had her insurance repair my car and got it back today. It looks perfect.
I was at the Post Office on Aberdeen Proving Ground and someone ran into the back of the 300 while it was parked. She was going to take off but seen someone in her rear view mirror taking a picture of her leaving the scene. She backed up and scribbled a B.S. note and left it under the wiper blade. She conveniently left one digit off the phone number. I called the Military Police and forwarded the picture of the car and license plate and they knew who it was before they drove the 4 blocks from the MP Station. She was cited for fleeing the scene of an accident and not making a reasonable attempt to contact the owner of property damage. I had her insurance repair my car and got it back today. It looks perfect.
You know... I would be seriously contemplating equal opportunity and an *** kicking.
300rag
It's Not Going to Shift Itself
I'm starting to think that you shouldn't park your cars.
Similar threads
