Looking at a Hellcat

[detmatt]

Wow, lots of comments since I last looked in. Lots of them of them pertaining to dealers. OK, I'll offer my $.02 (USD).

I'll start by telling you that I'm not a typical new-car buyer. As a kid, I once heard Howard Hughes was asked how he became wealthy. He supposedly said, "I don't pay interest on depreciating assets." For what ever reason (or perhaps because I was raised by depression-era cheapskates, lol) this stuck with me. So I went most of my life without a new car. Being a mechanic helps I suppose... I have been very well-served by a string of old $3500 daily driver Chrysler products. Usually acquired out west, where the resale value falls hardest for rust-free grandpa cars that haven't been run over our bombed out roads for a decade.

But I was no stranger to the inside of a dealer. My family and friends being more normal than I; would usually take me along to help insure they weren't robbed on a purchase or repair. I must tell you that I believe the Detroit area is a bit of an anomaly, since perhaps even a majority of purchases are done with some version of an employee-discount. The haggling is usually about $300 floormats or a lowball trade in. It also means the salespeople's motivation is something like this...

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Of course, worse than that is the service experience, which is like this...

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*true story... My dad brought his '92 Voyager in under to have the lift gate wiper motor replaced (the only failure that vehicle ever suffered). He also asked them to replace the 3rd brake light bulb, which is under the same plastic interior panel. In the process, they shattered the back window and had to keep the vehicle for a couple extra days. Now the bulb was accessible from EITHER direction, and they BROKE THE DAMN WINDOW COVERING THE BULB. They (tried to) charge him an hour for the bulb replacement.

Knowing that I would want to do this...

View attachment 159323

...at the service counter or sales office of any dealer where I plunked down $30-$40k+ and got treated like an **shole, I stayed away from dealers even when financing wasn't the issue. Seriously. That's pretty much how you get treated in a metro-Detroit dealer. They know you're getting a discount, they know you'll buy no matter what, so they treat you like garbage. I'm not looking for an assault charge. I stay away.

So while I like Chrysler vehicles, the dealers are like a cancer. I also know they're all pretty much the same, regardless of make, because the salespeople are gypsies that move from one location to another, and one guy owns the Dodge/Ford/Chevy/Honda/GMC/Nissan/Jeep/Lincoln/Kia/Buick/Daewoo story anyway. State franchise laws are written by local politicians, not car companies, who can go screw themselves in the opinion of J.D. Hogg (State Rep). And the franchise system dates to blacksmith days (really, it does).

But I really like the current Challenger. I felt as if I should reward the people who actually built a large, RWD V8 coupe by voting with my wallet. Then they (breifly) offered 0% financing on a car with the smallest amount of depreciation outside of a Wrangler, so even my insane and long-dead mentor couldn't complain. Way back in 2012, I'm dating my current wife who lived in a place that looked like this:

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So one day, we were driving through the cornfields and I spot a Dodge Dealer with a bunch of farm trucks and a few Dodge Challengers. I asked aloud... "I wonder how they'd treat me there instead of the car-buying hell we have in Detroit?"

Long story short... very well! They even let me test drive the stick vs. auto back-to-back, probably knowing full well that I'd use the 0-60 timer to see which one was faster. (Sorry Stan...) And when I said that I didn't want all the nav system junk, just a base radio, they suggested I order it from the factory the way I wanted it! They had no issue with my using an employee discount! They gave me free oil changes, which were the only reason I ever saw the service department. The next purchase will also come from Farmville.

I added the stripes and a few more "mods". The bittersweet ending was that although I put 15k miles on before I sold it, I never had the heart to drive it in the winter (and the track-pak tires would have been awful anyway). In the summer I mostly drove my old car(s). One day I pulled up (in another car) and thought "why am I paying all this insurance and some depreciation on a car I don't use that much?" So up for sale she went and within a couple days, she was gone. However, I will buy another before this current platform/style comes to an end.

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I like the orange stripe!

 

[cm23uoc]

Learn from Al:

 

[Carmine]

I like the orange stripe!

Thanks. I got a lot of compliments on it. I really wanted Header Orange, but missed the order window. This was my compromise, but I might actually like it better. If I buy another new or used, orange or white, I'm going to do a full conversion to white interior (doorpanels, headliner, etc.) Saw it on a forum and it was gorgeous.

 

[Big_John]

I hate the dealership "experience" and always feel like I need a long, hot shower after dealing with them.

I've been buying cars at the local Ford store for a while now, starting when my son was working there. He's gone on to other things, but I still buy cars and have some service work done there. It's a small, family owned place that doesn't have a big turnover in personnel. Just have to wash my hands, no hot showers.

There are no small Mopar dealerships in the area anymore.

 

[live4theking]

The two modern cars we have both came from dealers. The 06 Corolla I got in 13 and felt like I took a bit of a hosing on, it had 116K on it and cost me $6000. They had it for 6 months and only came down a couple of hundred bucks. The 07 T&C a friend went to the auction in 10 and got basically what I wanted. This was a deal out the door $15k, had 33K on it and he put new brakes on it and I was to go back in the fall and get new tires all the way around.

I don't know that I'll ever buy new and I always prefer to buy from an individual.

 

[commando1]

If it wasn't for the sub-prime lending scam, I have the feeling that a lot of car stores would shut down.

 

[bluefury361]

Plus! What would Will say? Jezabelle won’t like the Competition .. lol

Jezebelle is retired from competition. Exhibit only now. But it will likely be awhile before she comes out again.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I thinks it is going to 20° here today and we got 2" oops I mean 4" of snow it's the last day of the year sales wise. Today would probably be a good day to go to a super dealer. Let's see I would like to look at the gray one the blue one and the white one. Oh they look the same as this yellow one in the show room, nope I want to see those.... brush them off and dance M F.
Oh BTW my trade is this 02, 200000 mile trailblazer with only 1 & 2 gears, where is my 3500 guarantee.
I miss all the best chances for a laugh.

 

[Fury440]

They mean the dealer not the salesman! I took out my wallet and pulled out my license, he asked me what I was doing? I said I'm checking it to see if I was born yesterday!
I told them if they're only making $200 per car, they better put the key in the door right now.
I would hate to see the overhead on these mega dealerships. By the time you run the gauntlet, through the maze of people in there you're head is spinning.
If you make it across the lot without one of the scavenger's trolling the lot smelling for fresh blood, then your assaulted by some bimbo at the door who speaks like a 33 record played at 78. She "Assists" you by guiding you in the direction of a "sales assistant". (Usually the one she's been playing tonsil hockey with behind the tire rack.)
The salesman then asks what you're interested in blah blah. He takes your license, hands it to some other girl and you wait till she copies it and comes back. You go for a test drive, like it and start the dealing. He asks what kinda trade you have, you tell him and you fork over your keys. Two mysterious guys come out of nowhere and take your pride and joy for a ride... They come back and they have a chit chat on the other side of the room, out of ear shot of course.
The salesman asks you what you think your car is worth. Then hands you a form, with those clowns numbers on it. You are MILES apart. In fact, they might as well have castrated you right on the spot! You start to get up to leave only to realize they played the old, "the other guys still have your keys trick" Locking you in your seat till they decide you've had enough. An hour and a half later, if you somehow live through this torture and they brow beat you close enough into making a deal, they then bring out the Big Guns the "Assistant manager". Of course he could be the janitor for all you know. (You can't tell the players without a scorecard.)
He lays on the BS, and this is where the $200/car hand is usually played. You go round and round and settle on a car. But wait there's more people to meet!
You're then escorted by the sales guy to the finance manager, who takes your application, then you meet, the service manager, the service writer, the parts guys, they show you their state of the art service department, where a gaggle of mechanics are puttering about waiting to catch a glimpse of the bimbo who mans the door.
So, all tolled you've met or seen:
5 mechanics watching,4 salesman trolling, 3 girls office working, 2 "trade in" guys evaluating, 2 parts guys parting,1 service manager managing, 1 service advisor advising,1 service writer writing, 1 assistant manager managing and 1 door bimbo.
And partridge in a pear tree.
21 people. Plus more I'm sure.
When I bought my first car at a small Chrysler-Plymouth dealer in East Aurora NY, there were like 3 people up front. The salesman, who also took your credit app, the manager who looked at your trade, a girl in the office in the back, the service manager, who also did the advising and the writing, plus a couple mechanics.
And they gave the sweetest deals!
What happened to the nice friendly dealerships? I bought 5 cars from those guys, my dad 4, my brother 2. When you walked in there they knew you by name and were genuinely happy to see you again. If you had some issue, they took care of you right now!
Boy I miss those days!

Yes been there, been there!
When I bought my Jeep in 06 it was pretty comical. I happened to see exactly what wanted on a Friday evening and the salesman on duty was a new hire who was as useless as tits on a bull. I knew exactly what I wanted and from the good old internet exactly how much I was willing to pay for it. Saturday morning it was obvious the salesman was an idiot so I started to only deal with the sales manager. I sat down with him and had him explain the operation of every switch and option while I promoted my price and he promoted his. In the end I told him I would have insurance and plates for 2 pm if he took my number. He did, but the finance office was the next hurtle. They were promoting 0% interest on up to I think 6 years or so. I said I would pay cash, but I wanted a cash discount. They were adamant no discount and the 6 year finance was best. Well the 2 pm deadline was close so I gave them that win and agreed to a 3 year 0% deal. I've never really understood the financial logic behind that deal. Next came the parade through the service and parts departments. What a joke. The next day we took off for the cottage in BC and put on some serious miles, well KM. Was a good damn Jeep.

Eleven years later I'm starting to get the "new car itch" but I still really love the Jeep so drastic medicine is called for. The solution, get it totally serviced. So I called Dobalovr (Graham) to run it through a dealership and keep an eye on it to make sure everything was addressed and that I didn't get beatup too bad. Graham was super great, took my Jeep and got me a courtesy van.
In the end here is what happened:

The Jeep now runs liked a brand new one and it is, for me, super comfortable and a joy to drive.
The big plus, my Scotch heart dictates I must drive it for at least 5 years before even looking at anything new.

Graham, thanks man, I love my "new" Jeep. I don't know if its the new plugs or the injector cleaning, but it now runs like new and I just love it to death!

But I must admit, $89.97 to change a fuse is pushing the envelope. As it turned out, the problem was a defective plug in for a rear view camera which promptly blew the fuse again. I fixed the plug and replaced the fuse, about $5 plus 15 min labour.

But what the heck, I'm now immune to new car fever at least for the next few years!

But that TrackHawk .....

 

[Dobalovr]

@Carmine the stores around Windsor say the same thing all Employee Price deals with no profit. The guys are paid flat commissions but are spiffed on the accessories just like the cashier at the local bestbuy when they try and sell you the extended warranty protection. The internet has reduced the margins for Dealers as each tries to be the lowest priced blah blah mobile on Autotrader otherwise no one will visit your store when its 5 pages in the search function. Whats happening now is Social Media has replaced traditional forms of advertising. We pay Facebook to send you ads based on your interests and demographics as well as location. FB as you know uses browser history and other metrics to categorize your preferences. (This is why some of us keep seeing Tylenol or little blue pill ads) As margins are reduced because the internet can tell you how much to pay and how much your trade is worth the “Art of the Deal” has all but disappeared and been replaced with order takers whose greatest skill is saying “Do you want fries with that?” Dealerships have migrated to the many level of closers system as a way to make sure every customer has been throughly “interviewed” (read interogated)before leaving. It costs the Dealership on average $400-$600 per person who walks through the door so they are not too keen on squandering their investment. We have gone from 3-4 major car manufacturers 50 years ago to well over 100 so the noise has become so loud everyone is shouting to be heard and competing for the same customer. My advice to anyone buying a new car is to go directly to the Sales Mgr and offer a flat $ amount over invoice less any current promotions. Always ask if your company qualfies for employee pricing as FCA is tied into most majors and many associations. Do your homework goto the build and price section of the FCA website and print off what you want in the car. Take it with you and have the Dealer print a matching build from their internal DMS. Factory ordering is always the best way to got only the options you want but don’t be afraid to ask for the same price on the old stock unit sitting in the showroom with more equipment as the Dealer is paying interest to have it sit there. (BTW we put the oldest and hardest to sell units in the showroom to remind the sales trolls what has the biggest spiffs). Lastly I recommend extending the basic warranty on any new car but negotiate the price usually $500-$1000 markup in them. Other crap forget about. There are lots of aftermarket companies that will paint protect or undercoat for cheap. Oh and if you are buying a new FCA product contact me first and I will give you the skinny on costs recalls programs etc.

Try not to die....

in the Finance Office

Cheers
Your Freindly Neighbourhood Dodge Dealer

 

[Dobalovr]

Yes been there, been there!
When I bought my Jeep in 06 it was pretty comical. I happened to see exactly what wanted on a Friday evening and the salesman on duty was a new hire who was as useless as tits on a bull. I knew exactly what I wanted and from the good old internet exactly how much I was willing to pay for it. Saturday morning it was obvious the salesman was an idiot so I started to only deal with the sales manager. I sat down with him and had him explain the operation of every switch and option while I promoted my price and he promoted his. In the end I told him I would have insurance and plates for 2 pm if he took my number. He did, but the finance office was the next hurtle. They were promoting 0% interest on up to I think 6 years or so. I said I would pay cash, but I wanted a cash discount. They were adamant no discount and the 6 year finance was best. Well the 2 pm deadline was close so I gave them that win and agreed to a 3 year 0% deal. I've never really understood the financial logic behind that deal. Next came the parade through the service and parts departments. What a joke. The next day we took off for the cottage in BC and put on some serious miles, well KM. Was a good damn Jeep.

Eleven years later I'm starting to get the "new car itch" but I still really love the Jeep so drastic medicine is called for. The solution, get it totally serviced. So I called Dobalovr (Graham) to run it through a dealership and keep an eye on it to make sure everything was addressed and that I didn't get beatup too bad. Graham was super great, took my Jeep and got me a courtesy van.
In the end here is what happened:

View attachment 159370

The Jeep now runs liked a brand new one and it is, for me, super comfortable and a joy to drive.
The big plus, my Scotch heart dictates I must drive it for at least 5 years before even looking at anything new.

Graham, thanks man, I love my "new" Jeep. I don't know if its the new plugs or the injector cleaning, but it now runs like new and I just love it to death!

But I must admit, $89.97 to change a fuse is pushing the envelope. As it turned out, the problem was a defective plug in for a rear view camera which promptly blew the fuse again. I fixed the plug and replaced the fuse, about $5 plus 15 min labour.

But what the heck, I'm now immune to new car fever at least for the next few years!

But that TrackHawk .....

Glad to help Bill you have a $89 credit on your account and I have booked a lesson with the Tech so you can teach him Accessory plug failure diagnostics...apparently he needs a refresher

 

[monaco75]

$4,200 to change fluids, and do a tune up?

No disrespect to anyone, but jesus. Ill drive my dinasours.

 

[Fury440]

Glad to help Bill you have a $89 credit on your account and I have booked a lesson with the Tech so you can teach him Accessory plug failure diagnostics...apparently he needs a refresher

Not needed, it's stuff like that which keeps me from blowing $100,000 plus on something I really don't need!!
But that TrackHawk .....

 

[commando1]

This is Fake News, Right? A joke? Yes???

C'mon. 16 sparkplugs?
GST = ??? Graham's Special Touch ( A kiss on all 4 cheeks)???

 

[70bigblockdodge]

This is Fake News, Right? A joke? Yes???

View attachment 159383

C'mon. 16 sparkplugs?
GST = ??? Graham's Special Touch ( A kiss on all 4 cheeks)???

I would have done it for half that and if I could get a full time stream of that coming through the door my Pete would be on the market. Dealers don't make any money .... Please.

 

[commando1]

My advice to anyone buying a new car is to go directly to the Sales Mgr and offer a flat $ amount over invoice less any current promotions.

And that's what I did.
My purchase Price = Invoice - Holdback - Incentives - B.S. fees - trade in at Black Book Value.
Had it all down on a pc of paper. Gave it to jr, told him I didn't want to deal with him so go get Papa Bear in here.
Manager walked in, gave me the old, WTF YOU'RE KILLING ME MAN.
I sad, Yes or No and told him I would sign right now.
<Incredulous Looks   >
Done deal.

Jr. sat there like a deer caught in the headlights and asked if I was a car salesman. I asked him how much he made for saying Hello to me and 15 minutes of his time. $150.00.


I did throw them a bone. I said Finance me with NO early payoff penalty and split the bank kickback with me.
Also bought the 10 YEAR Premium Platinum Super Dooper Gold Elite extended warranty
Split that kickback, too.
Another few hundred bucks in my pocket. Ka-ching

I didn't ask for floor mats.

 

[Dobalovr]

This is Fake News, Right? A joke? Yes???

View attachment 159383

C'mon. 16 sparkplugs?
GST = ??? Graham's Special Touch ( A kiss on all 4 cheeks)???

You ever try to replace #7/8 plugs on a 5.7 hemi in a Grand Cherokee?? I’d pay that to not have to ...

GST is our govmint gouge and screw tax no provincial sales tax.

 

[commando1]

You ever try to replace #7/8 plugs on a 5.7 hemi in a Grand Cherokee?? I’d pay that to not have to ...

GST is our govmint gouge and screw tax no provincial sales tax.

Hand me a bill like that and I would burn the place down.

I still say that bill is a spoof.

 

[Dobalovr]

I would have done it for half that and if I could get a full time stream of that coming through the door my Pete would be on the market. Dealers don't make any money .... Please.

Paying Journeymen $50/hr aint cheap. Door rates average $150/hr up here. Most fixed operations run at 50-60% absorbed so sales must make up the other 40-50% in gross sales just to break even. I know of many middle to large Dealerships that are currently losing $100k to $300k a month right now in my market. Breaking even is considered a win nowadays. My monthly expenses to turn the lights on day 1 of the month top out at $600k so I need to gross $700-$800k to make a decent ROI. Average profit selling cars at $4000 per in 50 units is only $200k so fixed needs to produce $400k mmmm average per RO is $250 so thats 1600 work orders in a 22 day month or 72 per day in a 18 bay shop is 4 per bay...thats 18 bays producing 10 hours of billable work every day ...oh ya warranty work only pays 60% of door rate so tech is making 40% less and they love that..

All kidding aside there is money to be made owning a Dealership but it is far from easy...

 

[Dobalovr]

And that's what I did.
My purchase Price = Invoice - Holdback - Incentives - B.S. fees - trade in at Black Book Value.
Had it all down on a pc of paper. Gave it to jr, told him I didn't want to deal with him so go get Papa Bear in here.
Manager walked in, gave me the old, WTF YOU'RE KILLING ME MAN.
I sad, Yes or No and told him I would sign right now.
<Incredulous Looks   >
Done deal.

Jr. sat there like a deer caught in the headlights and asked if I was a car salesman. I asked him how much he made for saying Hello to me and 15 minutes of his time. $150.00.


I did throw them a bone. I said Finance me with NO early payoff penalty and split the bank kickback with me.
Also bought the 10 YEAR Premium Platinum Super Dooper Gold Elite extended warranty
Split that kickback, too.
Another few hundred bucks in my pocket. Ka-ching

I didn't ask for floor mats.

You musta read the “How to buy a car” book but you did it the right way and believe it or not we respect a good negotiator...however some times you have to tip the waiter or he spits in your soup lol

I’m betting the Dealership DMS system is full of notes on you and what not to do...

Facebook has a group called Dealershiplife it is usually full of disgruntled techs but there are some funny stories in there worth a look