commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Dodge City is keeping quiet so let's move on to Chrysler. ☺
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Need your help on spreadsheet
- Thread starter commando1
- Start date
yeah, the brochures for 66 (VIP on C pillar and between tail lights), 67 (red car) and 68 (blue car) show the "VIP" (cant see grilles tho) with "Plymouth" and "VIP" badging - but NO apparent FURY names EVEN though the VIPs only show up in FURY brochures (tho '66 had its OWN brochure).
there may NOT be a 1965 VIP -- cant find a pic or brochure so labeled EXCEPT this UN-dated concept piece when searching for "1965 Plymouth VIP" (off-topic but its kinda cool to flip through - neat concepts that NEVER got built). So, anyone with a reliable sighting of a 65 VIP?
1965 Plymouth VIP-01
Last..something from our friends at Imperial Club..the 1965 Plymouth Lineup showing NO VIP. not offered as "proof" but as a data point (VIP could have come out later in the model year, for example).
1965 Plymouth Division Line-Up From the Chrysler Sales Booklet
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patrick66
Old Man with a Hat
Imperial frames from 1959 - 1966 are about 99% identical. I would think that those would all be "D"-bodies. I realize that the Corporate designations came about in 1964, but when you look at frames, the architecture is same through those years. If one were to reverse-designate...
As far as the later Imperials, what was said about "Y" and "C" stampings is correct. Several years ago, a buddy was repairing a '73 Imperial, and found a '74 New Yorker, which has obvious body differences. It was at that time I noticed the "Y" and"C" stampings on various body parts. I could see the logic, as Newports, New Yorkers and Imperials came down the same assembly line.
As far as the later Imperials, what was said about "Y" and "C" stampings is correct. Several years ago, a buddy was repairing a '73 Imperial, and found a '74 New Yorker, which has obvious body differences. It was at that time I noticed the "Y" and"C" stampings on various body parts. I could see the logic, as Newports, New Yorkers and Imperials came down the same assembly line.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Indisputable C-bodies have B-body parts in them.
A stamp on a leftover from another prior year model doesnt really come into play here. Just it's heritage mostly.
A stamp on a leftover from another prior year model doesnt really come into play here. Just it's heritage mostly.
CanCritter
Senior Member
yummy....ld want one.....another rendition lve never seen...thanx for postin this Blue
Last one from me on 1965 VIP. All out of finding things relevant to the cause.
So, I do NOT think there was one Commando1..but we'll see if others weigh in with better evidence one way or another.
So, I do NOT think there was one Commando1..but we'll see if others weigh in with better evidence one way or another.
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300rag
It's Not Going to Shift Itself
you are exactly right I believe (assuming a hypothetical 65 VIP didn't get stuff early, or different like that fancy C pillar badge?) ... seller not even sure what he has EVEN though the VIN could tell him.
not slammin' seller as i am sure they are a fine outfit, its just that even smart car people don't know what they have.
me? i can't tell those two years apart without cheatin' with 1965 pics below. ;)
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[QUOTE="...If you look at a car called Plymouth and it had only VIP emblems and you then refer to The Chart, it would not be a C-body... [/QUOTE]
Excellent point. I lost site of the purpose of the document. VIP should have it's own line.
Excellent point. I lost site of the purpose of the document. VIP should have it's own line.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
You had to be a 65 or a 66 Fury owner looking for parts to know the differences.
I agree, I can't find any solid reference to a 65 VIP other then the concept car with a glass retractable roof in the 65 Chicago auto show and the artist rending shown above.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
IF you call the VIP a different line, then you have to use Fury I, II, III and Sports Fury a different line.
The VIP is only a trim level based on the Fury line.
Think of it this way...when that uni-body is first built, that specific body is not designated a separate line of cars. That particular body could wind up a Fury III. It only becomes a VIP once you add the trim level specific items and VIP badge to the car. A VIP is only a sub model of the Fury line; not a separate line of car. It's all about the badging, NOT the underlying body.
So if you want to use badging in your chart, then you'll have to go back and add the other sub models.
Don't make comparisons across different makes even under the same corporate umbrella. Plymouth did things differently than Dodge just like Chevy did things different than Pontiac. Each make of car had it's separate lines and trim levels due to where the make was positioned within the corporate structure and market.
The VIP is only a trim level based on the Fury line.
Think of it this way...when that uni-body is first built, that specific body is not designated a separate line of cars. That particular body could wind up a Fury III. It only becomes a VIP once you add the trim level specific items and VIP badge to the car. A VIP is only a sub model of the Fury line; not a separate line of car. It's all about the badging, NOT the underlying body.
So if you want to use badging in your chart, then you'll have to go back and add the other sub models.
Don't make comparisons across different makes even under the same corporate umbrella. Plymouth did things differently than Dodge just like Chevy did things different than Pontiac. Each make of car had it's separate lines and trim levels due to where the make was positioned within the corporate structure and market.
Fratzog
Old Man with a Hat
I'm trying to keep up with the bouncing ball. Using that rationale does Royal Monaco and Gran Suburban stay on the chart?
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
That reasoning can also be applied to Monaco and Polara.
I feel uncomfortable by disagreeing with you because of your dedication to documentation, but I think your opinion is biased because you get so heavily involved in the Price Class category working with VINS. I'm hearing the other side. I'm committed to getting it 0% wrong rather than 100% right.
The consensus was, for this first attempt, was a simple, useful, accurate, comprehensive chart, by year, that could 100% answer the question: "What is a C body?"
Having to contend with Chrysler's renaming, special badging, platform variations, etc,. ... and keep it all "simple" at this stage ... meant taking some presentation "license" as to VIN-related data.
Next generation versions, if taken on by this forum, could take on VIN data more comprehensively (price classes, body types, etc.,), then all the various models of Furys, Polaras, Newports, et.al. would start to show up on separate "Model" spreadsheet rows under the applicable "Make" column heading.
Whil some highly knowledgable users of the current chart may not see all detail desired, the objective to accurately identify a C body by name and by all 14 years looks to be achieved.
Or "0% wrong but not 100% "right" (a VIP sure looks like a highline "Fury" model to me, Chart still clearly and accurately shows its a "C" as intended for all users of data) as commando1 was asked and seemed to get some consensus from FCBO members on THIS version's objectives.
Still its good to get all members' inputs out there for discussion.
Having to contend with Chrysler's renaming, special badging, platform variations, etc,. ... and keep it all "simple" at this stage ... meant taking some presentation "license" as to VIN-related data.
Next generation versions, if taken on by this forum, could take on VIN data more comprehensively (price classes, body types, etc.,), then all the various models of Furys, Polaras, Newports, et.al. would start to show up on separate "Model" spreadsheet rows under the applicable "Make" column heading.
Whil some highly knowledgable users of the current chart may not see all detail desired, the objective to accurately identify a C body by name and by all 14 years looks to be achieved.
Or "0% wrong but not 100% "right" (a VIP sure looks like a highline "Fury" model to me, Chart still clearly and accurately shows its a "C" as intended for all users of data) as commando1 was asked and seemed to get some consensus from FCBO members on THIS version's objectives.
Still its good to get all members' inputs out there for discussion.
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69CoronetRT
Senior Member
Stay in the Plymouth line up.... ;)
I understand the point but the VIN, not what badges the car wears, is what determines the model line. If Plymouth would have used the badging Tom, Dick, Harry, Sue and Mary, they would still all be sub models of the Fury line. What they were badged is irrelevant. They were still all part of the Plymouth full size model line.
The equivalent would be saying the Satellite is not part of the Belvedere line up because it doesn't carry a number in it's name.
You are really, really close to 100% right. Don't be swayed by those that are looking at badging. A VIP is a Fury with the nice ****.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Im dying here. Lol. Please, show me anything said by Chrysler, Plymouth, whoever, that you can upgrade your Fury with VIP nice ****. 
Only that you can ugrade your Plymouth by moving up to a VIP from a Fury.
Only that you can ugrade your Plymouth by moving up to a VIP from a Fury.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
Mr C
Senior Member
The 880 went to 66...at least in Canada. My Dad had one.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I want to add the Canadian models.
Documentation is scanty so I need help with the names of the models with their year(s).
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