According to this article Automotive History: An X-Ray Look At GM’s X-Frame (1957 – 1970), the Tatra 97 had an X-frame of sorts in the '30s.
As an owner of '64 Chevies, I can say the GM X-frames are weak in a side-to-side twisting fashion.
New Mid-Engine Corvette Revealed This Evening in California - Not Impressed
- Thread starter saforwardlook
- Start date
According to this article Automotive History: An X-Ray Look At GM’s X-Frame (1957 – 1970), the Tatra 97 had an X-frame of sorts in the '30s.
As an owner of '64 Chevies, I can say the GM X-frames are weak in a side-to-side twisting fashion.
X frame GM drag cars have an interesting way of leaving the line.
That '60 looks like a wild ride. All of the hard top X-frame cars eventually crack/split from all of the twisting on top of the quarter panel where the C pillar meets the quarter.
78Brougham
"Chump"
Here is the chassis from a Lotus Elan, front engine.
And from an Esprit S1
This is a later V8 chassis.
You were right that picture is of the De Lorean. But no matter was still a Lotus design.
Here's a pic of the chassis in my Caterham
Quoted from this article... Ultra-lightweight Caterham Seven uses bicycle frame technology | Autocar
"In a car with a frame that weighs as little as 55kg, a 10% weight saving would shave about 5.5kg from the overall figure. Though that may seem small, on such a light vehicle (the 270 weighs 540kg) it'd have a measurable effect on bhp/ton figures and overall efficiency."
55 kilos is about 121 lbs.
And from an Esprit S1
This is a later V8 chassis.
You were right that picture is of the De Lorean. But no matter was still a Lotus design.
Here's a pic of the chassis in my Caterham
Quoted from this article... Ultra-lightweight Caterham Seven uses bicycle frame technology | Autocar
"In a car with a frame that weighs as little as 55kg, a 10% weight saving would shave about 5.5kg from the overall figure. Though that may seem small, on such a light vehicle (the 270 weighs 540kg) it'd have a measurable effect on bhp/ton figures and overall efficiency."
55 kilos is about 121 lbs.
Old Mike
Well-Known Member
I just don’t get interested in Chevys. I don’t think they’re bad cars, its just that they were produced in such staggering numbers they’ve always seemed mundane to me. Likewise for Corvettes. For a high performance car, sports car, or halo car, cranking out 30 or 40 thousand of them in a model year doesn’t make them seem all that special. That said, I understand what makes them iconic and why people want them. They are THE American sports car. That’s why, if I ever bought one, it wouldn’t be the C8. Making it mid engine seems to take away from its swagger. Chevy soldiered on with their pushrod engines in the front and drive wheels in the rear all these years and (if you forget the smog motor late C3s) consistently served up a car capable of menacing the exotics. Corvettes were sports cars with a really bad *** muscle car heart. The C8 may be better than its predecessors, but it just doesn’t have the same vibe.
78Brougham
"Chump"
Lotus just announced a new electric hyper car Evija (ev-eye-a). Looks pretty cool, as usual super light weight, 200 Mph...
Worth a look!
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-US/model/evija/
Here's an article from car and driver
Lotus Evija – Type 130 Electric Hypercar Debuts July 16
Worth a look!
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-US/model/evija/
Here's an article from car and driver
Lotus Evija – Type 130 Electric Hypercar Debuts July 16
78Brougham
"Chump"
Couple quick stats.
2,000 HP
0-60 under 3 seconds
0-186 under 9 seconds
2,000 HP
0-60 under 3 seconds
0-186 under 9 seconds
£1.7 million? At least it's practical.
Probably no one beats Lotus at building road race track cars that get the job done with aplomb!
The world of automobiles is changing so fast it is hard to comprehend all of it!
The world of automobiles is changing so fast it is hard to comprehend all of it!
Mike66Chryslers
Senior Member
The Lotus looks cool, but as an all-electric AWD "hypercar" costing about $2mil USD, I doubt anyone is going to cross-shop this with a C8. I guess that makes the C8 a steal of a deal, which has always been one of the selling features of a Corvette.
I would've said the Lotus will compete with the new Tesla Roadster, but I just checked and that's supposed to cost 1/10th the price of the Lotus, about $200k USD.
The Lotus looks cool, but as an all-electric AWD "hypercar" costing about $2mil USD, I doubt anyone is going to cross-shop this with a C8. I guess that makes the C8 a steal of a deal, which has always been one of the selling features of a Corvette.
I would've said the Lotus will compete with the new Tesla Roadster, but I just checked and that's supposed to cost 1/10th the price of the Lotus, about $200k USD.
Lotus' (and Mc Laren's for that matter) goal is more simple than the C8's goal - the goal of the first two is to just be the best there is at road racing, not oval track or drag racing, but more real world driving conditions, period.
In a project aimed at improving fuel economy of new generation vehicles that I was in charge of before I finally left my last job of 32 years, we invited in for interviews both Lotus and Mc Laren engineers to provide us with their best projections of where light weight, high strength, durable materials technology and cost were headed for future use as prime technologies for improving fuel consumption. They were both very impressive with their "can do" attitude and the height at which they set their goals. We also interviewed GM and some other mass market vehicle manfacturers and what they provided in comparison was lame and not very far reaching (but no doubt, they also didn't tell us everything they were capable of either - but there was a big difference in their goals compared to the specialty manufacturers).
GM's goal is to create a very good sports car as a halo vehicle and push the envelope some but with an eagle eye on cost and not that much innovation - and to generate sufficient profits to keep them in their product mix with the Corvette.
So the specialty manufacturers really should not be compared with the Corvette given those realities and differences in focus. The specialty manufacturers' vehicles do cost far more than the mass market vehicles, and the rich can afford the best there is, but the speciality manufacturers provide a very important function for improving future products in terms of better fuel economy, which goes a long way to improving all of our lives. I respect both Lotus and Mc Laren greatly. They have some of the best, most innovative and hard driven engineers I have ever met and interviewed among all the vehicle manufacturers.
78Brougham
"Chump"
Thanks Steve! Coming from you this is very high praise. Lotus has been involved with engineering breakthroughs for years. Unfortunately they are not allowed to disclose their customers. And that list is very impressive from what I've heard.
They have been a very innovative engineering company, solving all kinds of issues and designing new systems, actually the car division is more of a sideline for them.
Here is a link to their engineering department. Pretty impressive!
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-US/engineering/
Thanks again! I'm very proud that I've been a fan and owner for years. Imagine a company of this stature that started in 1948 in a garage that Colin Chapman borrowed from his friends dad, building cars one by one... to this! Very Impressive indeed!
Happy Motoring
Kenny
Well like it or not it sold out quickly....
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/jalopnik.com/the-2020-c8-corvette-is-almost-sold-out-1836786827/amp
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/jalopnik.com/the-2020-c8-corvette-is-almost-sold-out-1836786827/amp
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
First one down...
There'll be many more as American don't understand driving a mid-engine car. Especially the ones with grey hair, jean shorts and white tennis shoes and t-shirts.
There'll be many more as American don't understand driving a mid-engine car. Especially the ones with grey hair, jean shorts and white tennis shoes and t-shirts.
Fratzog
Old Man with a Hat
GM should provide a "driving for dummies" training course for new Corvette owners.
So only earing wearing,arrogant uppies know how to drive a mid-engine car?
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Your tag line says it all. There are other websites for crap like this.................
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67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Do what now? Saracasm I guess doesn't translate.
Anyways.
It's the truth, we drive mostly v8 front engine, rear drive cars. they handle in a way we, Americans, are used to and expect.
Mid engine cars handle in an entirely different way. In a corner when a FE RWD drive car enters a corner at a higher rate than the driver expects I / We lift or brake and the cars do what they do, the front tire bite more and settles and takes us closer to a line that will get us through the curve. If the *** end breaks loose we counter and the *** end follows around the front end where the weight is.
A mid engine has that big lump of engine out back and we've now lightened the rear end mid curve and that momentum wants to continue on it's way in the same path it was in. Counter steering in that scenario the front is going to take that car sideways in the original path that the rear want to travel.
It's not that American's can't figure it out. It's just we've not encountered this style of car with this kind of power much unless it's been in exotics which average middle age corvette driver is unlikely to driven much if at all.
These will be crashed left and right. And i venture to say a good number are going to be in the twisties.
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I believe this description of mid-engine handling is accurate. "Simple" physics like 67Monaco points out but exaggerated IF you have your foot in it .. like on a race course.
Do it (drive like your on a race course) in a city environment, plus any inexperience in the driver, doesn't usually end well. we lost a famous actor a few years ago like that.
I also know there was (15 years ago) this exact discussion about whether consumers needed "driving lessons" for what eventually became this Vette. Quite heated debate .. bean counters, lawyers, and engineers .. back then and I imagine past four years as well to get this car one the road.
I'll get my turn in the driver's seat this coming weekend .. will report my "a** in the seat" findings
Front vs mid vs Rear Engines – Which Is the Best?
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