No-Start with New Ignition

77newyorker440 said:
My apologies, sir, I do not mean to come off as brash or stubborn. Honestly I have had a really rough week outside of this car and this has just added to my stress. I apologize for this, and I hope I haven't angered anyone.
(...)
Thank you all for the help,
77newyorker440
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I took no offense and need no apology. Sorry to hear about the rough time you've been having, but your latest response confirms that I was right to be hopeful.

:thumbsup:
 
77 newyorker 440's car. That is a cool license plate!!!
20201224_170444.jpg
 
77newyorker440 said:
My apologies, sir, I do not mean to come off as brash or stubborn. Honestly I have had a really rough week outside of this car and this has just added to my stress. I apologize for this, and I hope I haven't angered anyone.
Really the big thing that kills me is that I bought this car just to drive it to school and have fun and it has honestly ran like a top right until the week before I got my license. Could it be worse timing? Again, I'm really sorry about all this, and I appreciate all the help, especially that of @CBODY67, @Big_John, and @cbarge, but to hear that the car has a serious problem such as a timing chain is just a huge blow to my motivation. I still will go about changing the timing chain, but this last month has been awful for the car. Lost a fuel pump, passenger door lock cylinder, and apparently a timing chain all in the span of one month.
Either way, I'll do the timing chain test tonight and report my results.
Thank you all for the help,
77newyorker440
Click to expand...
Listen and learn. More than happy to help as long as you got the gumption.
 
77newyorker440 said:
My apologies, sir, I do not mean to come off as brash or stubborn. Honestly I have had a really rough week outside of this car and this has just added to my stress. I apologize for this, and I hope I haven't angered anyone.
Really the big thing that kills me is that I bought this car just to drive it to school and have fun and it has honestly ran like a top right until the week before I got my license. Could it be worse timing? Again, I'm really sorry about all this, and I appreciate all the help, especially that of @CBODY67, @Big_John, and @cbarge, but to hear that the car has a serious problem such as a timing chain is just a huge blow to my motivation. I still will go about changing the timing chain, but this last month has been awful for the car. Lost a fuel pump, passenger door lock cylinder, and apparently a timing chain all in the span of one month.
Either way, I'll do the timing chain test tonight and report my results.
Thank you all for the help,
77newyorker440
Click to expand...

Don't worry. No one on this thread thinks your brash or stubborn. All of them are trying to get you focused on one troubleshooting step at a time. Jumping from one problem to the next without correcting the first problem is causing you to have multiple problems. So just be patient with them and follow the guidance.

Forget about the timing chain for now. You need to fix the other problems first. When it gets to the point of checking the timing chain. When you pull the timing cover off and see the white (yellow by now) plastic teeth on the timing gears....then plan on replacing it with a steel timing set. Like I said....put a hold on the timing set until you get the rest of problems fixed first.
 
Quick question for you all, I am about to check the timing chain, working on getting a socket on the crank. However, to eliminate other possible issues, can I use the original ELB thermoquad? I am concerned that part of my problems may be a poorly rebuilt carb from autolite, but I'm not sure if that ELB carb will work with a standard ignition. Plus I trust the original more cause it was rebuilt by Dana
Thanks,
77newyorker440
 
Just because you dropped it in same spot and wires may be correct. The reluctor, pick up coil may not be the same. If you flip the reluctor on the distributor it will change this relationship. Follow Big John's advice. Start from scratch.
TDC on compression stroke, finger over #1 spark plug hole, bump engine over with starter. Align the marks to 10 BTDC drop distributor in, line up reluctor points and reassemble and start.
 
70bigblockdodge said:
Just because you dropped it in same spot and wires may be correct. The reluctor, pick up coil may not be the same. If you flip the reluctor on the distributor it will change this relationship. Follow Big John's advice. Start from scratch.
TDC on compression stroke, finger over #1 spark plug hole, bump engine over with starter. Align the marks to 10 BTDC drop distributor in, line up reluctor points and reassemble and start.
Click to expand...
Just to confirm, what and where are the reluctor points?
 
Install your cap on the distributor, make a mark on distributor body under the number on tower, remove cap, turn distributor so rotor tip is pointing at your mark. That should get you real close to your fire.
As long as you are sure you are at number one compression stroke and not exhaust, the finger on plug hole method will give two pushes of air, one softer then other.
 
77newyorker440 said:
About 9 degrees of play in the chain, as shown below, gonna repeat test a few more times just to be safe

View attachment 509740
Click to expand...

77newyorker440 said:
Second try, had 6 degrees of play, pretty good imo!
Click to expand...

OK, what you've done is verify the chain slack.

Your first reading is on the excessive side and your second reading sounds better.

There's a couple things to still consider. First thing that jumps out at me is you tried it in one spot, backed it up and tried it again in the same spot. Really the way to do multiple tests would be to pull the engine through one rotation and check it again. That would do two things. First is it checks the cam gear (the one that fails) at a different spot. Crank turns twice for every one rev of the cam. Second is that you might be not completely taking up the backlash in the chain and gear by backing it up and trying at the same spot.

Now, let's say that even if you do this again, it passes muster. This still just looks at chain stretch at only one point and doesn't take into account that the cam gear may have jumped a tooth.

Since (IMHO) the chain is really still suspect, I'd check it again, even doing it at approx 1/4 turns of the crank. Make a chalk mark on the damper if you need to at these spots.
 
I tried to find a good pic and couldn't.

This is the best I could find.

This is what fails and not the chain. Yes, the chain will stretch, but the main culprit is this plastic gear.

Note how not all of the teeth are broken. You can have a good part of the gear where everything checks good and a bad part where there is a ton of slack... or even jump a tooth.

Now... I'm not saying the chain is your problem, just want you to understand what the magic is before you discount it completely.

1642442717618.png
 
Big_John said:
OK, what you've done is verify the chain slack.

Your first reading is on the excessive side and your second reading sounds better.

There's a couple things to still consider. First thing that jumps out at me is you tried it in one spot, backed it up and tried it again in the same spot. Really the way to do multiple tests would be to pull the engine through one rotation and check it again. That would do two things. First is it checks the cam gear (the one that fails) at a different spot. Crank turns twice for every one rev of the cam. Second is that you might be not completely taking up the backlash in the chain and gear by backing it up and trying at the same spot.

Now, let's say that even if you do this again, it passes muster. This still just looks at chain stretch at only one point and doesn't take into account that the cam gear may have jumped a tooth.

Since (IMHO) the chain is really still suspect, I'd check it again, even doing it at approx 1/4 turns of the crank. Make a chalk mark on the damper if you need to at these spots.
Click to expand...
Okay, I realize it may not have been clear in my post, I did actually take it around a full rotation before testing again.
 
Big_John said:
I tried to find a good pic and couldn't.

This is the best I could find.

This is what fails and not the chain. Yes, the chain will stretch, but the main culprit is this plastic gear.

Note how not all of the teeth are broken. You can have a good part of the gear where everything checks good and a bad part where there is a ton of slack... or even jump a tooth.

Now... I'm not saying the chain is your problem, just want you to understand what the magic is before you discount it completely.

View attachment 509833
Click to expand...
Yep, earlier my dad and I were discussing how we cannot believe that those plastic teeth can put up to the stress of running the engine.
I just wanted to test the chain because it was recommended here
 
Reluctor points are the pointy spikes on the star wheel. Unimportant now, you got it to start. Now put some timing in it. Mid teens BTDC will about do it for a low compression 440. My 440 in my Charger is around 15, with a total of around 36.
 
Okay so here is the situation update. My dad and I retuned the tq, found 10 degrees before TDC for 1 on compression, installed dist., and reinstalled fan and shroud, and it runs like a top
 
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