Rant ON... National Anthem...

[cm23uoc]

If I would have used the word shithole as a kid around Family or in public I'd get a smack by one of my parents or grandparents, these days I'd still get the rolling eyes and mad look by my mum.
It's a bit difficult trying to raise Kids the traditional way as you Kind of run out of arguments why not to use explicit language around People, and don't moan too much in your youth bashing threads when they duplicate what the supposed elite sets as an example.

IMHO bad manners are not needed to establish yourself as an outspoken Person or differantiate yourself from those horrible pc fanatics.

 

[Carmine]

If I would have used the word shithole as a kid around Family or in public I'd get a smack by one of my parents or grandparents, these days I'd still get the rolling eyes and mad look by my mum.
It's a bit difficult trying to raise Kids the traditional way as you Kind of run out of arguments why not to use explicit language around People, and don't moan too much in your youth bashing threads when they duplicate what the supposed elite sets as an example.

IMHO bad manners are not needed to establish yourself as an outspoken Person or differantiate yourself from those horrible pc fanatics.

Agree 100%, but it's inevitable for language to evolve. I'm sure the folk that study such things are having a field day right now.

I don't like it myself... but it's important to remember this was a closed door policy discussion whereupon one person decided to capitalize on something that was "supposedly" said to gain political leverage.

So although I'm right next to you mourning the loss of decorum, I'm also not going to be "played" by a tattletale.

Suggestion for Trump's next tweet:

@DickDurbin: Snitches get stitches.

 

[MarPar]

Long read, but well written...

Of Crudeness and Truth

 

[rapidtrans]

And sometimes the truth hurts. That’s reality. You cannot be a successful boss without facing the truth. If i used P.C. speak and made the workplace a “safe place” we’d be out of business. I’m in business to make money not hand out “Participation Trophies”.

 

[Carmine]

Interesting thoughts that I concur with. They take me back to the 80s when this subject was still present with little real progress after some 30+ years........... Its just the way it is...................

Steve, I can understand you might think I'm beating up on you, but I swear it's not what I intend. It's just that the song you posted was BS in 1986, and it's BS in 2018.

This nation existed for about 150 years without a "popular culture". I'll put a dot along the time line around 1925, when inventions like the automobile, telephone, motion pictures, recording devices, radio, daily wire services, etc. really started shrinking this vast nation. For the first time, there was a means to begin offering commentary that could impact a nation through entertainment. The song "Brother Can You Spare a Dime" is the first example that comes to mind, but most everything was fairly lighthearted and optomistic until at least a decade after WWII. By 1965, the young folks were starting to tell the older generation they had made the world into a shithole. That was a new occurance on such a large scale in human history. Not so much the young vs. old, because that's always exisisted, but the ability to influence a "demographic" on such a mass scale with a targeted (and usually cynical) message.

Perhaps some of it was deserved, especially when you look at how Vietnam was handled, but it wasn't limited to government. It was everything! Sexuality, dress, education, and perhaps most impactful, music.

Because young people love music, and because music spans generations; new generations will never escape how awful the world is (at least through the eyes of a millionaire superstar).

Have you ever been on either end of this? "This is the last we're going to speak of XYZ, and if you raise it again, you're going to be spanked/grounded/fired/held in contempt/sued/or shot?" It's not the most democratic thing, but is damn sure neccesary! If not, you might be asking a 90 y/o man to up your allowance or we might still be bombing Japan.

But strangely that never happens with pop-culture cynicism. Because music is recorded, whatever wrongs occurred in 1986, or 1956, never fade away. So Bruce Hornsby performs some throw-away lyrics and it's treated like a gospel. If the melody wasn't as catchy, it would be long forgotten. Because cynical is always treated as "deep" and it sells.

To my point made earlier, have you ever heard St. Tupac of Shakur's version of "just the way it is"? (Afterall, he was shot after beating someone hours earlier in most-holy Las Vegas, so he must be a martyr.) Same piano riff, but with revised lyrics...

I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
Is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
My stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
Pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero

Really 2pac? You can get a burger and fries anywhere in America for $2. You're that hungry?

We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
The penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change

Oh 2pac, if only you'd lived another 10 years. Or another 20 and you could complain about Trump.

Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
So the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you

:eyeroll:

Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs
Some buck that I roughed up way back
Comin' back after all these years
Rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

That's just the way it is
Things will never be the same
That's just the way it is
Aww yeah

Written by Bruce Hornsby, Tupac Amaru Shakur, Deon Evens • Copyright © Universal Music Publishing Group

See my point about a white-guilt culture where the wrong just never ends, then it gets put on steroids for a black audience? You don't think this sewer of guilt or justifed violence has an effect?

 

[commando1]

Long read, but well written...

Of Crudeness and Truth

Right on the head of the nail.

Let’s state the obvious. Some countries are shitholes. To claim that this is racist is racist. They are not shitholes because of the color of the populace but because of bad ideas, corrupt governance, false religion, and broken culture

 

[saforwardlook]

Steve, I can understand you might think I'm beating up on you, but I swear it's not what I intend. It's just that the song you posted was BS in 1986, and it's BS in 2018.

This nation existed for about 150 years without a "popular culture". I'll put a dot along the time line around 1925, when inventions like the automobile, telephone, motion pictures, recording devices, radio, daily wire services, etc. really started shrinking this vast nation. For the first time, there was a means to begin offering commentary that could impact a nation through entertainment. The song "Brother Can You Spare a Dime" is the first example that comes to mind, but most everything was fairly lighthearted and optomistic until at least a decade after WWII. By 1965, the young folks were starting to tell the older generation they had made the world into a shithole. That was a new occurance on such a large scale in human history. Not so much the young vs. old, because that's always exisisted, but the ability to influence a "demographic" on such a mass scale with a targeted (and usually cynical) message.

Perhaps some of it was deserved, especially when you look at how Vietnam was handled, but it wasn't limited to government. It was everything! Sexuality, dress, education, and perhaps most impactful, music.

Because young people love music, and because music spans generations; new generations will never escape how awful the world is (at least through the eyes of a millionaire superstar).

Have you ever been on either end of this? "This is the last we're going to speak of XYZ, and if you raise it again, you're going to be spanked/grounded/fired/held in contempt/sued/or shot?" It's not the most democratic thing, but is damn sure neccesary! If not, you might be asking a 90 y/o man to up your allowance or we might still be bombing Japan.

But strangely that never happens with pop-culture cynicism. Because music is recorded, whatever wrongs occurred in 1986, or 1956, never fade away. So Bruce Hornsby performs some throw-away lyrics and it's treated like a gospel. If the melody wasn't as catchy, it would be long forgotten. Because cynical is always treated as "deep" and it sells.

To my point made earlier, have you ever heard St. Tupac of Shakur's version of "just the way it is"? (Afterall, he was shot after beating someone hours earlier in most-holy Las Vegas, so he must be a martyr.) Same piano riff, but with revised lyrics...

I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
Is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
My stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
Pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero

Really 2pac? You can get a burger and fries anywhere in America for $2. You're that hungry?

We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
The penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change

Oh 2pac, if only you'd lived another 10 years. Or another 20 and you could complain about Trump.

Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
So the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you

:eyeroll:

Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs
Some buck that I roughed up way back
Comin' back after all these years
Rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

That's just the way it is
Things will never be the same
That's just the way it is
Aww yeah

Written by Bruce Hornsby, Tupac Amaru Shakur, Deon Evens • Copyright © Universal Music Publishing Group

See my point about a white-guilt culture where the wrong just never ends, then it gets put on steroids for a black audience? You don't think this sewer of guilt or justifed violence has an effect?

Thanks for your views. Once again, I didn't say that I agreed with all the lyrics, only that the subject has been the same for over 30 years now, and it doesn't change much. But thanks for the usual presumptive comments that lead into long discourses disagreeing with things I never said.

I see both sides of the issue and always have. Personally, I believe our uptick in racial issues in this country stem from economic factors more than others, where folks at the bottom (black, white and all the others) live in poverty with little to no hope and folks at the top keep taking more. This just creates massive problems, and fingers start pointing at our racial issues as the root of it all, when in my view it is not. Just work harder and get yourself a job may not really work the way it did 50 years ago.

Until, and if, money ever gets much more out of politics, these problems will just keep getting worse and we will all continue to go downhill. But the politicians today are robbing the bank and serving their doners rather than us, and they have skillfully ratched up the race card to take the eye off them, and it is working superbly. Just read through this thread and all the frustration, while the bank gets depleted. The "bank" I am referring to is the USA's well being and world leadership.

The foundation of this country was equal opportunity and the well being of everyone, not just a few. But we are so out of whack now, I don't know how we ever get back to our roots again. Factory workers used to share in the wealth generated by corporations, not have their jobs shipped overseas while the share holders and the CEOs got pay raises, for example. And with the new tax law, we have another $1.4 trillion added to the national debt, and the politicians are already saying we won't have enough money coming in soon, so get ready for "entitlement" cuts to social security and medicare next, so we can afford to keep the government open. They know "trickle down" really doesn't work - it didn't under Reagan and won't today either. Lets see how many jobs really come back when the CEOs are happy with the tax cuts that will reward them even more and their shareholders, and the stock market soars. What in the new tax law will make the jobs come back when the folks that run the corporation are delighted with the new changes and have no requirements in the law that require them to change things?

Everything is skewed so the elite are increasingly rewarded while the rest of us are increasingly squeezed into more debt payments to keep up our lifestyle. So just keep pointing fingers at each other and the other races and lets see where this all ends up instead of addressing the real problem in this country - unbridled GREED. We are all being had as fools. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[commando1]

We are all being had as fools.

The "elite", well insulated and guarded from the unwashed masses are enjoying the crap out of our increasing disgruntlement which is leading to Civil War. All part of their plan for The New World Order where every citizen is stripped of individuallty and are in life-long servitude to a chosen few.

 

[saforwardlook]

The "elite", well insulated and guarded from the unwashed masses are enjoying the crap out of our increasing disgruntlement which is leading to Civil War. All part of their plan for The New World Order where every citizen is stripped of individuallty and are in life-long servitude to a chosen few.

You get it. Thank you. Now what?

Amazon is wiping out retail stores and accompanying jobs with it, and Jeff Bezos is the wealthiest man in the world more so than ever before. What else is next as robots take our jobs too. Self driving cars included. Is this where we really want to be going?

 

[commando1]

You get it. Thank you. Now what?

For you and me? Hell, Steve, we got ours. It's not like you and I need to save up for a rainy day anymore. For us, the rainy season has arrived while we're inside enjoying the Cocktail Hour of Life because we existed when we could save up. No more. We can now grumble about the youths and the politicians and finish eating our steak.
I truly feel everybody under 50 and still living check to check are screwed. Instead of being an engineer in the old Bell labs, every one is now doomed to writing 1.99 apps as an independent contractor.

Where the U. S. used to be a superior world power ( MAGA ), we've allowed our politicians to drag us down to third world country standards.

New World Order.

 

[saforwardlook]

Problem is over the years a lot of people have taken advantage of our good will and abused our system. People over staying visas etc.. look what's happening with the hotels they have in California, where these scumbags take in pregnant Chinese women, (to the tune of $80,000) so they can have their babies here and immediately become US Citizens, more abuse of our system.
I believe in immigration, my grandparents came over from Poland in the late 1800's early 1900's. But guess what, they did it LEGALLY. They didn't come here with they're hand out looking for a freebie. They worked hard, got jobs, learned to speak English (and were proud to) and made great lives for their families.
Get in line, wait your turn, work hard and keep your nose clean. Welcome to the USA

No disagreement. There is a lot to fix, now how can we get it done without our President saying things before he thinks about the consequences of them? I want the focus on fixing the problems, not on him. We had both sides in the room and progress was at least starting, until his comment derailed it all. I want a leader, not a drama queen to usurp the daily news headlines.

 

[saforwardlook]

For you and me? Hell, Steve, we got ours. It's not like you and I need to save up for a rainy day anymore. For us, the rainy season has arrived while we're inside enjoying the Cocktail Hour of Life because we existed when we could save up. No more. We can now grumble about the youths and the politicians and finish eating our steak.
I truly feel everybody under 50 and still living check to check are screwed. Instead of being an engineer in the old Bell labs, every one is now doomed to writing 1.99 apps as an independent contractor.

Geesh Stan, you knew all along....... you weasel and rabble rouser!

I am going out to work and get off this computer.

Yeah, folks under 50 are truly screwed.

 

[1978 NYB]

 

[MarPar]

View attachment 162951

Author?

AMERICANS

 

[saforwardlook]

Yes I have thought about it.
Yes I would like to be more like the Japanese reference.

Times have changed, just because that's what it was founded on doesn't mean it still works .

That nagging statue needs to either be pushed into the harbor or given back to the French ...


As noted so many times 100 years ago people came and assimilated. Now, they want you to speak their language and allow them to bring their culture here. They want you to be them and they look down on you .

I applaud his majesty so far. Most of what he says and does is fine with me . With the available media, you may have seen the last of the silent president.

Gosh, Dave, it has been a long time since you wrote such a long response. But don't let yourself get dragged into this mess too much. I need to get out.

 

[1970cat]

The "elite", well insulated and guarded from the unwashed masses are enjoying the crap out of our increasing disgruntlement which is leading to Civil War. All part of their plan for The New World Order where every citizen is stripped of individuallty and are in life-long servitude to a chosen few.

i've been saying this forever. this time i think will be the blacks against whites mostly fueled by media bs. i don't consider myself racist, but have you noticed anytime something of major interest is happening (such as s-hole haiti) the people interviewed are black? a black man shoots someone or gets shot and it's all over the news. others get shot everyday and we don't hear about it. lead in the detroit water, pick the poorest black family you can to interview.
i don't get it. why is the media portraying blacks in this manner? what about the black industrialists, doctors, scientists?
the only thing i can believe is that the media is laying the groundwork for an uprising. the question is who profits from this. someone always does.
why not send a reporter to haiti and ask their opinion on their own country and our presidents comment? no, we'll ask well to do second or third generation american-haitians. (notice american first). they don't like it. oh well.

 

[Fratzog]

Long read, but well written...

Of Crudeness and Truth

Brilliant!

 

[cantflip]

The silent president will be back... as soon as they get their president elected. Then you won't hear a peep...


Problem is over the years a lot of people have taken advantage of our good will and abused our system. People over staying visas etc.. look what's happening with the hotels they have in California, where these scumbags take in pregnant Chinese women, (to the tune of $80,000) so they can have their babies here and immediately become US Citizens, more abuse of our system.
I believe in immigration, my grandparents came over from Poland in the late 1800's early 1900's. But guess what, they did it LEGALLY. They didn't come here with they're hand out looking for a freebie. They worked hard, got jobs, learned to speak English (and were proud to) and made great lives for their families.
Get in line, wait your turn, work hard and keep your nose clean. Welcome to the USA

I'll chime back in... IDK why... from what I have seen, there is more integration amongst younger folks every year. I do realize I am not hanging out in the ghettos nor am I rubbing elbows with crowds that have an open racial agenda either. It does seem kind f'ed up that The Simpsons can say almost anything on TV, but All in the Family would never be aired today.

I picked on your thread Kenny for one simple reason, blended cultures and ethnically diverse families. Over the years, I see much less of the N word used in hate and when I hear it, it usually involves young men who only seem to know it as a "bad word" they use on their friends.

I see more and more couples of obviously different heritages, and more children that are openly accepting of them. IMO, that is the way our country has grown and to some extent always has been. First,maybe second generations tended to be more in tune to ethnic differences... but in many families, it dissipated away from there. It really hasn't been that long since I was in grade/high school and commonly hear the staff use racial words, including the N word, sometimes in front of a class. I can't remember the last time I heard it used in hate by one of the young folks.

This newer racial tension has been cultivated by several groups with agendas... none of which seem to be to make the world better for the folk who support them. The BLM folks grew out of extreme members of more positive organizations, the politicians who thought they could find advantage support all of this and their supporters make it grow... there is a division, and I think it has the potential to undo much of the ethnic/racial blending I have seen. Meanwhile it is the dregs of society that are being held up as heroes and martyrs.

The shame in all of this, it is the bottom feeders of any race who are the ones who are excited to see this controversy grow... and with no better thoughts as to the ultimate outcome than the little girl who thinks the country owes her a free, top level, college education.

 

[78Brougham]

why not send a reporter to haiti and ask their opinion on their own country and our presidents comment? no, we'll ask well to do second or third generation american-haitians. (notice american first). they don't like it. oh well.

To put it simply... if it wasn't a shithole they wouldn't want to leave would they. I have no desire to live anywhere else do you? Anyone?..... Anyone?..... Beuhler? Beuhler?

 

[1978 NYB]

I have been deployed to shitholes.

EVERYONE wants to live in America.