Reproduction C Body Battery Cables?

[saforwardlook]

The last time you piped up about this was August 30th, 2019. Thus, I've called you out about this issue today, June 6th 2020, and your response is a weak homily about a "trying" regarding a fusible link, whilst the cable is done. Done? When was done, done? It seems to me that you are taking saforwardlook for granted. He's a prince of a fellow who is trying to do good things for the rest of us, and thus perhaps you assume we'll all toe the line behind him and be quiet for a year or two, so as not to ruffle your feathers. I would happily be quiet to get a decent product in a reasonable timeframe. But no.....you're futsing with a simple fusible link! Are you kidding us? This is not rocket surgery. Make the damn thing and sell it and make some money. Or not. "Or not" is fine. We can deal with that. Don't fib about your progress. We can smell the lack of interest. Screw the C-Bods.....let's sell E-Body stuff! But wait.....many of us have E and B Bods. Oooops....poor marketing choice!

Our very exalted member saforwardlook has vouched you, but I (Trace300Hurst) believe you've let him down in a significant way. However, to your honor as a "car guy", at least you didn't pull the bullshit "covid" excuse.

Going Forward, I'll totally step away from this thread and stop my rant, and I mean that. I'll not post to this thread ever again. From here, it's up to you and your potential customers as to what you can produce for the hopeful C-Body owners.

Trace, I think I have mentioned that it hasn't been that long ago that QQE bought out Gary Goers who made literally thousands of parts for the Forward Look cars that he serviced for a lot of folks still out there. QQE is remaking a lot of those molds to make them even better and is also ramping up to make some of the upholstry sets that Gary also made up in the past. There are still many scores of people who are wanting QQE to make complete leather upholstry sets for a lot of the Chrysler 300 letter cars and a host of other Forward Look cars as well. They too are wanting to get their parts and I am seeing the email traffic on just the Chrysler 300 Club site that want their stuff too. Without those parts, it is virtually impossible to restore a Forward Look car these days to a high standard.

In my case, I am just grateful that QQE is willing to even take on additional requests for our C body cars in light of the tremendous demands on him from hundreds of people. I can only imagine the daily pressures that have been and continue to be on him over the last two years and then about 5 months ago the virus hit all of us. He has only so many staff and trying to pay them and do everything else he has to do including buying new machinery and supplies to make the parts and so much more we can't appreciate, and he also has been attending justa couple of the bigger car shows to gain greater visibility of his efforts. I do not believe that QQE makes any B or E body parts since there are so many vendors who do.

So personally, I am willing to wait longer yet to get the washer bottles and the battery cables knowing that when I email or call them I always get an update, and am not being told it won't happen.

Manny (70 Sport Suburban) on this site sent QQE an NOS washer bottle to copy exactly and I sent them a set of original battery cables from one of my 71 300s to reproduce for all of us.

The reality is that QQE is the only game in town for making the parts we still need for our C bodies and much like SMS, they are overloaded. But unlike SMS, they don't take your money up front in order to put you in a waiting line of several years wait time to get a lot of their stuff. But I do appreciate the quality of products that SMS puts out, so that helps a lot - it is just better than one could ever expect and I believe from what I am hearing on the Chrysler 300 site, that the products received from QQE are and will be really good as well.

Yes, the battery cable's bullet connector will be made to look just like the originals on the fuselage cars that used them, and to accomplish that QQE has had to make a significant investment in 3D printing equipment and find the time to make it happen - I have no idea of anyone else in the reproduction business who would go to that length for us C body guys, and we have made it clear to him that getting the cable as original is really important to us and he may even make the part number sticker that goes on each of those harnesses that left the factory as well. And all this is happening in the U.S, not China.

So yes, I realize that Detroit Muscle Tech also makes quality products but in a more timely manner, but that is because their scope of business is not nearly as broad as that of QQE, not even close.

So please put yourself in QQE's shoes right now and realize they are making thousands of low volume parts plus pay his fairly small staff for not that large of a body of buyers and that getting it all done and still make a profit is a really tough business to be in. I can only imagine.

Thank you for your understanding of the scope of his efforts. I can still wait to get quality that I really want. I did likewise with Gary Goers who never really made all that much money and he also put off restoring a number of his own cars that he never got to, but he took care of a ton of people and to me he has been a saint. I couldn't have restored my 1957 300C or my 1962 Chrysler 300H without the products he made available and I also bought from him complete reproduction kits for my 1958 Dodge Regal Lancer and my 1961 Chrysler New Yorker that I have not started yet. Otherwise, I would have not had the capability to restore these cars anywhere close to the level I wanted and was able to accomplish, and the couple others I still wait to do.

And so it is with some parts on our C bodies.

Both Manny and I have sent them the parts to reproduce between August, 2019 and around January of 2020 as I recall, so it has not been but some 9 months that we have been waiting. To me, that is not enough time to get what we want when seeing the big picture that they face.

When I get frustrated, I tell myself I still have a lot to be grateful for. It really helps.

And thank you for the adjectives you have used to describe my efforts, but I believe that many more folks on this site would describe me with completely opposite ones since I am not a big fan of one of they guys in public life that they cherish, although I do try to give that person credit where I feel it is due...........

 

[ceebuddy]

Trace 300 Hurst, impatience on your side does not create any obligation on any vendor's side.

 

[3175375]

Trace 300 Hurst, impatience on your side does not create any obligation on any vendor's side.

I agree with you, as long as the vendor is communicative. When my patience has grown thin with suppliers, it is usually due to the vendor has other issues (illness, death, putting food on the table, etc.) and when I learn of this after inquiring, I let it go. The bottom line is that a significant majority of businesses don't communicate enough with their customers to inform them of delays, etc. I have seen this in many service and product suppliers, not just C body parts and service providers. It has been even worse when I have attempted to give my relatives business. I have thought 'do they treat ALL of their customers this way, or just relatives, or me? By the way, poor communication drives me nuts, as during my career, many of the problems with getting a product or service completed were due to lack of communication, or providing sufficient detail for the customer to understand....

 

[Big_John]

So yes, I realize that Detroit Muscle Tech also makes quality products but in a more timely manner, but that is because their scope of business is not nearly as broad as that of QQE, not even close.

I don't want to take sides here. It is frustrating at times, but, everything is more complicated than it appears on the outside looking in.

As a former business owner and a former Tool & Diemaker, I have some understanding of the cost of tooling and also, more importantly, understanding that the money laid out has to be recouped in a timely manner. Failure to do that will put you out of business in a hurry. Couple that with the fact that a lot of this stuff is not the primary source of income either for the person or the business.

DMT is a great company, and very responsive to the needs and wants of their customers. Some of the products they sell are sourced from other manufacturers, like windshield gaskets for example. The rest of their products can done with either very simple tooling (steel rule dies) or done on CNC Knife Cutting machines where any of the soft materials (heater box gaskets etc.) can be cut. From conversations, I believe most of his stuff is cut on the CNC knife. While the investment in the CNC knife cutter isn't exactly chump change, tooling up for new product is a matter of doing some programming rather than designing and building hard tooling.

Compare that to something like a washer bottle. Those bottles were made using rotational molding. You are now looking at cost of hard tooling and (most likely) using an outside vendor to actually make the product. While the cost of the tooling isn't as high as injection molding, it's still a significant investment.





The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't as easy as it sounds. On this forum, I often see "they need to make quarter panels for a '67 Imperial" or something like that. The simple fact is that they would never sell enough of them to make it break even, let alone make a profit. Some understand and some will never understand.

It's well known that QQE took over Gary Goer's product line and for that I stand up and applaud them. I also figure that with a one man operation, Gary's system knowledge had to be a huge part of the business. The transition has to be challenging at best. Just filling the back orders can take much more time than trying to forge ahead with new product.

As I said, I'm not trying to take sides. I have no dog in this fight. I'll probably buy a washer bottle, probably won't buy a battery cable. (Although, make a correct battery cable for a '65 Barracuda and I'm there).

 

[65pacecar]

Does QQE have a website? I used GG in the past but not the new owners.

 

[saforwardlook]

Does QQE have a website? I used GG in the past but not the new owners.

I do not believe he has one yet.

Just to give perspective, Gary Goers catalog was some 60 pages with about 20 detailed drawings on each page of what each part looked like (there were many pages of listings as well with no drawings - it was incredible). It was mind boggling to use and it took me two weeks to place my order for a comprehensive list of parts for my 58 Regal Lancer. Gary is the only guy in the world that can look at a part from one of the collection of Forward Look cars over the years and tell you what that part belongs to. My order from Gary totaled more than $5000 and came in a very large Home Depot cardboard box plus some longer, larger boxes for some of the interior and trunk parts. I believe mine was one of his last complete orders filled before he retired.

I say this because I have no idea how Todd at QQE can grasp the width and breadth of the number of parts that Gary made and then go from there to actually make them available and get the orders right.

I have known Gary Goers for over 50 years now, and he is the guy that taught me how to do body work on my 1957 Chrysler 300C in front of his shop - and I can still recall that I had to do the quarter panels what had to be like 6 times over until they were arrow straight before Gary would signal his approval (back in those early days, Gary had a shop he worked out of in Southern California and I went there often). The guy that I ended up buying my original 1960 300F from is the one who taught me how to paint the 300C and my 300H (he did body/paint work on cars for a Buick dealer in Burbank California for a living). Guys like those two are hard to find these days.

Currently the auto industry is chomping at the bit to get back into production ASAP. Their huge investments in tooling are sitting idle on their assembly lines and the cost of each day down is in the millions of $$ for each plant. Some companies are seeking loans to get them through the rest of the year. Elon Musk is also worn thin on his plant in CA not operating and is being very vocal about it. So imagine that Todd also has a very large investment in his operation already and is really not able to produce anything either right now due to the virus where his operation is shut down. He must also be losing a lot of money at this time as well since he is not getting any return on his investment either right now. So please keep that in mind too. I am sure he too would like to get production going ASAP.

I also had discussions with Gary about who would be best suited to take over his business and it came down to two strong candidates. QQE and one of the members on this FCBO site that recently bought a couple of Doc's Imperials. Gary's choice came down to Todd largely because of his wealth of experience in production of these kinds of parts and knowledge of production processes that pushed his final decision, although both were excellent candidates.

Trust me, please be patient, as we should be grateful that we have a company like QQE making parts for our revered cars. They really just need time to get well underway and this virus could not have hit at a worse time.

 

[Trace 300 Hurst]

I said I would not post back to this thread, but because of the thoughtful responses to my annoyance with QQE, I felt I should acknowledge all of you. I don't have a dog in this fight either. My washer bottle is minty somehow, and my aftermarket/repaired battery cable looks okay and works just fine, so I'll remedy the head for $35 (MegaParts) and be done with it. So....no dog, really.

First, I totally agree with what was said, and understand your general defense of QQE. A 30+ year career as a mechanical engineer permits me to say that I certainly know that it's not as easy as it seems to make stuff. Big_John certainly knows exactly what he's talking about regarding tooling and the like. And Steve, your efforts to work with (and be patient with!) vendors is truly admirable. And sure, patience to get quality products from a quality vendor only makes sense. However, I've seen manufacturers hide behind "quality" while not really furthering their efforts, knowing the purchaser doesn't want to reduce his requirements, and also knowing the purchaser will be patient, particularly if that manufacturer is basically the only game in town, as you mentioned above. After all, who wants to try and find someone else to blowmold a washer bottle after having already waited this long? That itself could take years, so we might as well wait on QQE, right?

It is totally true that my impatience does not obligate them to make these items. However, when someone accepts a job they have obligated themselves to moving forward while the folks who have commissioned the work AND provided prototypes patiently wait. Let's remember that nobody forced them to accept the admittedly difficult challenge (and upfront costs) of producing these various low volume items. That's the business they've chosen and the implied promise they've made. I really hope that despite all the challenges of running a business of making quality products for a variety of purchasers, they can find a sliver of time to advance the cables. Those are important components to many Fuse members here.

Does anyone remember the guy in Ohio, back in 1987/88, who said he was going to make fenders and other straightforward Cuda and Challenger stampings for a strengthening restoration market that had NO available parts, other than the junkyard? We were thrilled. He was a legit tool and die maker/fabricator/stamper/whatever, making "stuff" for several industries. He had an advert in one of the magazines or Hemmings....don't remember now. I sent him a rare, perfect exhaust valance at my cost (and risk, yes). Others sent him fenders and door skins. He fooled around for three years, and after a time he rarely answered his phone. Sometimes his wife did, and a fella can't cuss her out over her husband's malfeasance. So we waited (whoever "we" were, as there was no forum to discuss such things). And then he disappeared, as did our prototype items. Perhaps memories of that debacle has sharpened my attitude about patience.

Oh, speaking of Manny: He helped me out greatly with door pulls and associated hardware. His generosity with those rare parts and his SEM paint advice brought my interior up to snuff. Much thanks to him.

Anyway, best of luck to QQE on their difficult business. I respect that they want to do it right. I just worry about that saying from Voltaire "Perfect is the enemy of good."

 

[QQE]

Hey guys thanks for all of the positive response. We are thankful for all the business and love all the Mopar line and also enjoy challenging projects. We have been overwhelmed with business since the beginning of the year since all the restorers are home working on their cars. You are correct that we make 98% of our parts in house and do not rely on overseas vendors. Last December we finalized the purchase of Dales Cuda Shop which now makes us one of the largest Mopar manufacturing companies out there. I will only release a part if it correct and so far we have tooled for the head, the electrical connectors and rubber boots and are now working on the plastic twist connectors and tab that says fusible link. We have finished the 69-70 c body cable that Bill Evans supplied a sample. This one has been a challenge. As always please call with any questions we are in the shop and like talking with our customers. It is a good way to learn. Happy motoring and be safe! Dave

 

[69 300 vert]

We have finished the 69-70 c body cable that Bill Evans supplied a sample. Dave

I seem to recall that there's an early and late '69 cable. I _think_ the difference is ~ 3"? Do you know which one you might have done?

 

[Matt Conlan]

yep. Im looking for them, too. Both Positive and negative for a '70 big block. The negative wire on this one is Chrysler engine blue!

 

[69 300 vert]

yep. Im looking for them, too. Both Positive and negative for a '70 big block. The negative wire on this one is Chrysler engine blue!

Was bolted on the engine when it was painted. Just paint it if you want to maintain the effect. My '69 had lost most of the insulation near the engine and went bad somehow.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

Four pages and 71 posts?????????????
Just call M&H and have them make you a cable, I think the price was about $135 for a PERFECT

Reproduction C Body Battery Cables?

Reproduction C Body Battery Cables?

This is a correct 69 cable
(Reproduction: M&H)

(Original)

Alan

 

[69 300 vert]

They want me to send mine in before making it because of the early / late difference. I just hate to have the car immobilized that long.

 

[330dTA]

Does QQE have a website?...

Yes: Quirey Quality Design Co.

Nothing much else there besides a telephone number, however. No catalogue, no product listings, nothing. Just a telephone number, and a couple of generic sales photos. Not very handy for a hard working customer who wants to place an order once off duty, out of business hours. I would have ordered a set of '70 cables on the spot, but will now turn to M&H instead. (I buy quite a lot of stuff from eBay, using PayPal. I love both their systems. They're so handy.)

 

[Samplingman]

Sorry for dragging this thread back to life, but it has been 6 months since @QQE said:

“We have finished the 69-70 c body cable that Bill Evans supplied a sample. Dave”

Any update?

 

[saforwardlook]

Their operation isn't something that you can do from home on your computer, so given their comments in the past how the virus has affected the business, I have elected not to press them until this country can actually get the problem under control.

I sent them a set of cables from one of my low mileage 71 300s that had everything correct including the paper tag with the part number still on it back on Sept. 7, 2019. Last I heard they were going to fabricate the correct fusible link ends to make a totally correct cable and had at least planned to get a new 3D printing machine to make them as I recall.

 

[Lilbluecoupe71]

just go to M&H i just got a repro set from them yesterday. they look like oem cables. took less than a week to get them delivered

 

[saforwardlook]

just go to M&H i just got a repro set from them yesterday. they look like oem cables. took less than a week to get them delivered

If they are not installed yet, could you take a photo of them and post it here so we can compare to the originals. If they look identical to the ones in post #72 above, then no need to take a photo.

We found earlier that the ones from M&H do not look identical to the 1971 and up cables that your avatar seems to suggest you would need (look at connections for the fusible link).

 

[saforwardlook]

I should have an update on the status of the 1971 - up battery cables tomorrow. Apparently Dave's wife is the one at the company that handles all the 3D printing stuff and does that work from home it appears.
Stay tuned.

 

[Lilbluecoupe71]

yes mines a 71 300. i cant say if the fusible link connector is correct, mine was soldered directly into the oem harness some time ago.