Scenicruisin'..?

[amazinblue82]

I don't know how you missed those either... smaller, more practical version of the Scenic that did not cause as many headaches to the bus lines. I don't think they have quite the same sex appeal, but they are/can be very nice. If it sleeps 8 it's a bunkhouse design, I had the impression you were thinking more of a private suite...

my mind was (is) open to learning stuff. my bias has been PD4501, but i started from a base of zero knowledge about bus/RV conversions.

to break-out of that "ignorance trap"? that's why i started this thread. folks here know stuff about all kinda things.

Also I was particularly interested re-powering these old coaches to perform best in the modern era, then whether to buy a shell and build my own, OR" buy one done".

anyway, i have seen 4104/4106's in my searches during this thread, as well as on the road when they were in service. then the Flxibles, Newell's, Prevosts, Eagles, Sultana's caught my eye -- the PD41's got lost in the shuffle

 

[amazinblue82]

I really love the practicality of those hard top pop ups... A/C even... that would be a different thing if full timing though.

Yep ... and I was having some fun with commando1 and bluefury361 (that's his award-winning '69 300 vert I think)

 

[amazinblue82]

cantflip hipped me to the "Buffaloes" months ago .. I let them slip past me.

I gotta relook at them too. Basically an improved "Scenicruiser" derivative, with a short lower deck. 35 ft and 40 ft lengths

GM 4107, 4108, 4903, 4905 -- and last ones with this design were the H8H649 series (in the last photo below).

the 4107 and 4903 models made loud "gear grinding" noises. 8V71 2-stroke Detroit Diesels shoved 'em along.

I haven't yet seen a "modern" renovation yet .. I know they are out there but haven't run across one yet that appeared to be recently converted/updated.

 

[commando1]

Gawd, how many jabillion gillions of those busses were built. Those busses were all I saw I think back when. Another American Icon fromwhen America was. . . oh never mind.
Love those busses.

 

[cantflip]

my mind was (is) open to learning stuff. my bias has been PD4501, but i started from a base of zero knowledge about bus/RV conversions.

to break-out of that "ignorance trap"? that's why i started this thread. folks here know stuff about all kinda things.

Also I was particularly interested re-powering these old coaches to perform best in the modern era, then whether to buy a shell and build my own, OR" buy one done".

anyway, i have seen 4104/4106's in my searches during this thread, as well as on the road when they were in service. then the Flxibles, Newell's, Prevosts, Eagles, Sultana's caught my eye -- the PD41's got lost in the shuffle

I reread and I sound harsher than I was thinking, sorry. What I meant by it was they built so many PD4104/06's and they held up so well, and so many were converted... In every search I have ever done on GM buses they would come up. Some of the Buffalo's were better than others... I thought hard about a couple of 4905's... I still love the Scenics and Flxible VL100's... I still want to check out the December bus rally in Arcadia FL... It appears that the Carlisle folks are in charge now, I wonder how that has affected it.

From my perspective, it seems the old bus crowd has been ageing away and not being replaced by a next generation. Perhaps by the time your closer to your desired retirement there will be some smoking deals to be had, but its sad too that so many are gone due to folks that are unable to do anything with them.

Formals are a wise investment by comparison... you lose less $$ at resale.

 

[amazinblue82]

I reread and I sound harsher than I was thinking, sorry. What I meant by it was they built so many PD4104/06's and they held up so well, and so many were converted... In every search I have ever done on GM buses they would come up. Some of the Buffalo's were better than others... I thought hard about a couple of 4905's... I still love the Scenics and Flxible VL100's... I still want to check out the December bus rally in Arcadia FL... It appears that the Carlisle folks are in charge now, I wonder how that has affected it.

From my perspective, it seems the old bus crowd has been ageing away and not being replaced by a next generation. Perhaps by the time your closer to your desired retirement there will be some smoking deals to be had, but its sad too that so many are gone due to folks that are unable to do anything with them.

Formals are a wise investment by comparison... you lose less $$ at resale.

I took NO offense at all to your "tone" brother No need to apologize to me at all. Your sage advice in this thread has been sound and highly useful. Thanks (to you and others).!

As I wax philosophically in the late "third quarter" (in football speak) of my time here on this mortal coil, I think back to the days I rode these coaches (PD's at Greyhound, the Eagles at Trailways). My formative years, like with these old Mopars and other vehicles we all celebrate, are intertwined with these buses.

So many memories -- my view the future looking "out the panoramic window" from the upper deck of a PD-4501 as a 10 year old, compared to the world "today" as it has really turned out -- now that I am the "old man" .

Anyway, things change, progress advances, and yes these buses are gonna be gone -- a few hundred still around in 50 years from now, but a mere fraction of all the ones made - like the Model T.

That's the way the world works and I'm cool with it. I wish I could save them all .. I obviously can't. But I gotta save one, for a while, and see the country with some family and friends in tow, for also long as I can do it.

Bad investment with my "orange" money? Probably -- so I am trying to be smart as I can about that in the face of what may be a losing deal going in.

I'm still gonna try

 

[amazinblue82]

Some memories, in the C Boby Bob cool-retro look genre

1950's - Continental Trailways Terminal Red Carpet Treatment with a Five Star Golden Eagle coach

1960's - A Trailways Eagle in Denver

1950's - Scenicruiser at West Palm Beach FL Greyhound Station

1953 - PD 4104 at Coldwater MI Station

1961 - Someplace warm, a Scenicruiser sporting the new Greyhound color scheme

 

[amazinblue82]

Apparently these Trailways Golden Eagles were something. 1950's buses (and trains btw) fighting a largely losing battle with airplanes,

 

[amazinblue82]

I remember a couple of these .. Scenicruiser TV commercials .. and that jingle (careful, if you're old enough to know it, might leave an earworm )



An aside ... watched again and finally paid attention. Greyhound got Groucho

 

[amazinblue82]

Took me a sec to remember the first song ... see how you do. Anyway, cool pics and footage of a bygone era.

 

[amazinblue82]

The Sultana buses. Mexico's version of a PD-4501 inspired design -- and others that GM made.

 

[cantflip]

Love the Flxible/Dina buses... always figured the Sultana 4 wheel steers would be a PITA somehow... not that I ever worked on anything like that before.

Thanks for the videos. I would say that when you are finally ready to pull the trigger and get your bus, you will have definitely done your research.

 

[amazinblue82]

I don't want one .. but I am reading up on these Trailways Super Golden Eagle articulated coaches. Rolls Royce Diesels pushing them. Only four ever built -- all in 1958.

Its now more of a mechanical curiosity .. where was the engine(s)? Which is (are) the drive axle(s)?

Anyway, never saw one on the road .. never heard of one before two days ago.

1960 - Bakersfield California

Early 1960's - Western US somewhere

Early 1960's - Denver CO

3 of the 4 still accounted for (as of 2010, one was restored, one was being restored, one a hopeless wreck somewhere in the midwest US, and one's whereabouts unknown).

This one belonged to AC - Transit in Oakland. They bought it from Trailways in 1966 where it did the LA-SF run then. It became the "Freeway Train" in SF under AC-Transit's ownership (Photo below was sometime where in the late 1960's)

Here's the AC-Transit story of their "Freeway Train"

 

[amazinblue82]

Found more stuff -- it was buggin' me.

There was one engine, mounted under floor of the lead coach, one set of drive wheels in the lead coach (it "towed" the second coach, which had steerable axles. Rear of second coach was luggage storage.

Apparently only ONE Super Golden Eagle is still on the Road. Wilson Bus Lines has (had) one on the West Coast (that belonged to AC-Transit - same one in post #413).

Before Wilson could get it back on the road, it needed the steering mechanism that controlled the second coach's rear axle turning. 40 years later the West German manufacturer had ONE left from 1958 -- or there would be NO Super Golden Eagles on the road.

Presumably the one below is un-restored one of the two left -- photos below are dated 2014. Some outfit in Eugene Oregon called "Green Tortoise" had (has?) the bus below.

Article says its ONE of the TWO left -- so wherever Wilson's bus is and this one. Repowered with DD-8V71 somewhere in its past -- as of 2014 a mess. Link shows insides of it.

source: Bus Stop Classic: 1958 Kässbohrer Setra Continental Trailways Super Golden Eagle

 

[commando1]

There was one engine, mounted under floor of the lead coach, one set of drive wheels in the lead coach (it "towed" the second coach,

But. . . but. . . but. . .

 

[cantflip]

But. . . but. . . but. . .

View attachment 102220

On a guess the rear would be a second power plant for A/C only.

BTW, a DD8-71 is not what I would have expected to fit under the floor... I would have expected something like the Cummins pancake engines used on the Crown buses.

I would love to see one of the old smaller production buses with a Hall-Scott gas engine in it... there is an appeal to a bus that can run circles around the DD but at 2MPG... it's hard to believe they ever thought it would be profitable.

I have to check out one of these guy's shows sometime soon...
Home - Florida Flywheelers Antique Engine Club
They're closer to you, Stan, have you ever been there?

 

[amazinblue82]

But. . . but. . . but. . .

View attachment 102220

yup, i saw that too. but note that Wilson's bus does not have that grille in the second coach as the original did.

what I am about to say below -- I dunno what I'm talking about for sure but just guessing

The originals had "galleys" there where the articulation area was, plus the AC et. al. With 1958 technology they needed something that Wilson's resto did NOT need.

Wilson had (a) access to modern technology that eliminated/reduced in size whatever the '58's had, and/or (b) Wilson did away with features (like the galley) the originals had.

I will keep hunting around to see what was mounted in the '58's in that second coach.

 

[amazinblue82]

On a guess the rear would be a second power plant for A/C only.

BTW, a DD8-71 is not what I would have expected to fit under the floor... I would have expected something like the Cummins pancake engines used on the Crown buses.

Wilson's SGE has a single "Cummins 262" (whatever that is) .. didn't find any other details on it. Trailways ditched the RR diesels within the first few years of operation (the RR couldnt take the punishment) and went to DD 8V-71's.

And I'll keep looking for what was mounted underfloor in the second coach -- my uninformed guess aligns with yours. A generator of some sort was probably there to run the AC, the galley, and perhaps help power the fancy (and breakdown prone) steering mechanism for the rear axles maybe?

 

[amazinblue82]

Trailways "Five Star" luxury service advertising for the Golden Eagle Coaches.

 

[amazinblue82]

1946 Kaiser .. some call it the first true articulated bus. Never heard of before today. But, there must be story to it out there -- how it worked, why it failed, etc.