Scenicruisin'..?

[amazinblue82]

Wasnt a buyer, nor will I ever buy of something NOT monocoque, but always watching market prices of the newer (less than 20 years old) coaches are fetching.

Naw, it aint a Prevost or a Newell, or some other Taj-Ma- Bus brand, but it is pretty well equipped. 505 HP Cat 12 turbo diesel, 100K miles. Nice, not gaudy. Neat amenities.

Comparable used coaches tend to go for $80K-100K. At $45 large, I still think somebody made out pretty good on this 2002 rig.

Just going by description, I estimate it needed 10K worth of mechanical work (AC, tires, etc.) to drive trouble free for a decade. BUT, i woulda gone to look at it had I been a buyer.

NO RESERVE!02 COUNTRY COACH MAGNA HAVEN,TAG AXLE, 2 SLIDES,505HP TURBO DIESEL RV | eBay

 

[polara71]

Gorgeous. I'd love to own one. Perhaps sell the house in 20 years and live in that.
I'd have to to be able to afford the fuel.

 

[amazinblue82]

I am 20% over budget but 80% done with PD 4501.

Even after 8V rebuild, IF it gets 10 mpg, it would only be all downhill driving. These old rigs definitely have "drinking" problems.

That's why I had to get that big, honkin' sum-gun a job when I retire (its a secret, but cat'll be outta the bag soon). Couoldn't afford the diesel otherwise.

Seriously, wait'll ya see what she'll be doing when she's done AND I'm retired (but still able to handle it). It'll be really BIG, or it'll wet the bed.

I am hoping for the former, else I will have go work as a big box greeter, OR live in the darn thing.

 

[300rag]

Nice, not gaudy. Neat amenities.

View attachment 612813View attachment 612815

That interior looks very similar to the one I had.

 

[amazinblue82]

one from the bus club: 1956, asking $125,000.

Bus For Sale - 1956 GM PD4501 Scenicruiser

 

[fury fan]

For the money put into that, an electronically-controlled Allison would've been a fabulous upgrade.
Not super-simple on the electronics, and would need a very unique calibration to work with a 2-stroke Detroit.
But worth the performance increase for sure.

 

[amazinblue82]

For the money put into that, an electronically-controlled Allison would've been a fabulous upgrade.
Not super-simple on the electronics, and would need a very unique calibration to work with a 2-stroke Detroit.
But worth the performance increase for sure.

My 4501 (Scenicruiser) is a T-drive (longitudinal) arrangement. Upfront, lemme advise I am WAY out over my skis here as to technical knowledge. I DO listen very well though to people who DO know stuff.

In this thread (@twostick, @70bigblockdodge, @cantflip, @commando1, and others I am forgetting have been very helpful over the years), and from everybody else who knows what they are talking about, has recommended that I consider an at least 9 speed (but less than 13 speed) manual conversion.

I am sure automatic four-plus speed options exist .. I can't recall which ones though.

The bus in #1,465 went to a 9-speed Eaton. My new buds on the bus forums, particularly the ones that stayed two-stroke diesels, highly recommend upgrading from the original four-speed, non-synchronized manual Spicer.

They have real world, contemporary experience in driving all over the country, that advises I'll be WAY happier with MORE speeds for driveability reasons.

Very few of them recommended ANY sort of automatic conversion, Allison or any other.

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My 4905 (Buffalo bus) is a V-Drive (transverse) arrangement. Mine still has its Spicer four-speed manual. Since that coach is fully mobile. do I have some experience driving it around.

It can be a chore with a manual, -- in the 1980's I drove automatic 35 ft. Flxies (all these buses are long retired) in college on campus routes -- so I see the benefits of automatics.

I did buy an Allison V730 (non-electronic controlled, 3 speed auto) for an EVENTUAL conversion of that coach, but that's not a priority now. Excellent deal for an opportunistic buy (post #1,471).

Bus forum guys have done it, even with the 731 (electronic controlled) version with nothing more to show for it than HIGH conversion costs due to the electronics.

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Again, I DO NOT understand the salient aspects and nuances of this TECHNICAL discussion. so without help I will screw this up. However, right now, I have my mind made up on a few big things.

I WILL NOT be going away from two-stroke Detroits in either of these coaches, but I have budgeted for eventual, possible transmission choices. I DO NOT want to try to turn them into "modern" diesels (emissions, mpg, etc) unless feds FORCE it.

If I had to make a living driving one, AND considering I am getting older, automatics DO have some appeal. Unlikely to do it in 4501, more likely to do it, in a NON-electronic version, in 4905.

 

[fury fan]

I don't know how practical it is to convert an old V-drive into a modern diesel-pusher configuration, it was probably more a fantasy thought than anything.
But a 6-speed Allison, with lockup torque converter, would turn any old OTR vehicle into such a dream to drive. Akin to putting a modern 8-speed automatic behind a little LA318.
The electronic Allison's shift quality is so superior over a hydraulically-controlled automatic, and worlds better than an electronically-controlled manual, which still has all the torque-interrupts associated with a standard manual trans. Although some of those may be using a fluid coupling of some sort at this point, I've been out of that world for 10 years.

 

[fury fan]

I hadn't considered stretching the bus. I knew there were things I didn't know about.

I don't know the HT-40 and MT-40, but I'm betting the H signifies 'heavy', and the M is medium. Both of them way before my time.

The 653 is presumably referring to the MT-653, a common medium-duty RWD hydraulically-controlled trans. It is the 5-speed version of the MT643, but it has a granny-gear for 1st gear. The shift from 1-2 is pretty harsh and best done at closed throttle, so not much benefit for street use except slow-speed maneuvering on hills.

The 1000-series is the commercial version of the trans used in GM Duramax pickups (and 8.1 gassers when they existed). IIRC those are rated up to around 30k GVWR, although that may have increased over the years. They were 5-6 speeds, might be 8-speed at this point. I don't know the completed weight of a bus, but this trans might be a little small for the job, but like all Allisons it's a rugged little unit for sure.

If there are guys out there that can tailor a valve body to give it a good personality, then a hydraulically-controlled trans is much simpler and cheaper, of course.

Back to the fantasy - a 2-stroke DD paired with a 1-sec shift time would be interesting to hear. Would probably make any savvy gearhead turn and ask 'where's that coming from???'.

 

[amazinblue82]

An Allison V730, three speed auto, 1950's intro as a factory piece. You can tell by the shape of the transmission its a V-drive (transverse mounted engine, trans bolts the back side, angles toward mid line, to rear diff.

Not mine, but what I have in reserve for the Buffalo (4905) conversion one day. Weight is nearly 1,000 lbs, btw,

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If someone wants to nerd out a a bit, 17 minute video below of a guy servicing a RETROFIT (very common) of a V730 into a 4106 (a successor to my buses, 1960's vintage, most had Spicer 4 speeds, though earlier 50's vintage buses like mine could be had with Allision automatics).

PD 4106 - Very popular coach to convert to RV's

To accomplish the retrofit of the automatic, there was fabrication necessary to get it to fit.

And, as the video guy says, really NO standard way to do it, so folks improvised. Result? Some jobs done well. Some jobs sucked. Buyer beware buying such a coach is the moral of that story.

 

[amazinblue82]

Again, not looking except to pay attention to the nicer, used coaches. Prevost is a primo brand .. this one has nice interior .. not too gaudy.

I wouldn't be into one, any one of them, for $200 big. 22 years old, almost 300K miles. this one is nice too. I'd prefer NOT to have the modern graphics but the "silverside" look is cherry.

Trailer not auto-carrying capbable tho. I am looking for something to match the old PD's - people want more than the bus for 'em. Crikey!

For that many miles, and a lukewarm condition rating, its nice but naybe a little Paul Neumann premium on it.

​

2000 Prevost coach rv extremely rare 2 door with matching trailer, 2 slides, Detroit 60 series, 278k miles, was previously owned by THE Paul Newman, setup for office areas/gathering spots, does not have bedroom, has restroom but shower is in trailer, new tires on coach, 4066 hrs on generator, some features work sometimes and sometimes they don’t. With that being said it runs drives and operates but would recommend full service/inspection to get everything back in top notch condition P

2000 prevost marathon coach trailer Paul Newman | eBay

 

[fury fan]

Yeah, I've never understood why the RV industry put those 'motorhome graphics' on *everything*.
They don't fit my taste, and I know I'm not alone on that.

That trailer has a lot of wheels and a short tongue. I wonder how well that pulls. The bus is heavy so won't be bothered, but short tongues sure don't help trailer wag.

 

[amazinblue82]

as to a car trailer, again, was hoping for something of a 50's vintage (for the look). But, nothing really looks like these old PD's (monocolor upper, polished aluminum sdes)

My guys are saying, '"bad idea", to get a 70 year old trailer design -- even if it could be located -- given leaps/bounds in safety car trailers have undergone in all that time.

I was recommended to look at this type of rig. Not to rent/buy necessarily, but as to style.

Honestly, however, how much different could a "bus" trailer be than a trailer (non-gooseneck) dragged by a 1 ton duallly or something?

 

[twostick]

Would this work?

They can build it to your requirements I'm sure.

Concession Trailer with Corrugated Sheeting - DoyleManufacturing.com

Kevin

 

[amazinblue82]

nice brother, thx.

seen this style, even has smooth (for bus upper color in my case) and "silverside" ribbed look. looks like this model would accommodate any passenger car in my range .,, 1960-1980 .. too.

would would you guess as pictured? $25 large brand new? I wouldnt need the "extras" though .. just a shiny, sturdy, secure box that WONT wag my bus.

 

[twostick]

They are built near Hamilton Ontario so the current exchange rate could equal a pretty good discount for you. A US$ is approx $1.40 Canadian right now.

Kevin

 

[commando1]

seen this style

I think the drop in the frame in the rear is always going to be a problem because of its ground clearance. Gonna get chewed up a lot . Maybe enough where you can't open the doors.

 

[amazinblue82]

ah, i get it. 22' Enclosed Car Hauler - DoyleManufacturing.com

A "concession" trailer ... food and or products, etc. that sloping rear must facilitate a dolly/cart ramp to service that kinda work

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Doyle "standard" auto trailer looks like this .. they could do one of their 22' or 24' in stainless "at a cost" they tell me. 22 feet seems plenty long to me .. I dont own any early 70's Imps so I am good,

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Even with the good exchange rate, I'd have to get into on of those babies "used" and go with paint vs. SSteel..

easy to get into five digits for these .. my budgetary nose is already bleedin' on this caper.

 

[mopar preferred]

How about a standard car hauler, and a chrome wrap on the bottom?
I wonder if you could put some corrugated metal on the bottom and cover it with a wrap?
Maybe some of the reinforcing ribs from an old school bus?
Just tossing out random thoughts.

 

[amazinblue82]

How about a standard car hauler, and a chrome wrap on the bottom?
I wonder if you could put some corrugated metal on the bottom and cover it with a wrap?
Maybe some of the reinforcing ribs from an old school bus?
Just tossing out random thoughts.

Appreciate the thought chief.

One of my guys suggesteted I get the skin off a derelict vintage coach we no prospects for rehab, and rivet that 1/3 way up sides of standard, used, but high quality "standard" trailer.

During pandemic I bought a '70 MCI wreck (example below .. NOT the one I bought) to salvage some plumbing/electrical/generator, etc for my bus. It had sat two decades, outside without windows (though some parts like generator were kept indoors), no engine, etc,.

I have a lot of the side panels (i.e, the "front clip" with the wide ribs) from that coach as I haven't scrapped it, then might be enough to dress up a standard trailer.

cargo doors were missing on both sides, but may be enough left to salvage there. rear hatch was gone when I got it.