Steering wheel wants to turn right while idling, steering gear adustment or front-end alignment?

[MoPar~Man]

1967 Monaco. Front stub replaced, steering gear moved to new stub. No alignment done (yet). Tie rod adjusters adjusted by eye. Upper control arm bolts tightened in center positions. All new bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Torsion bar height adjustments made. Front end has suitable height, maybe not perfect. Wheels look straight. Only requirements I have is that I can maneuver the car in the driveway for now.

Upon engine start, with wheels pointing forward and steering wheel in correct center position, the steering wheel will start turning by itself to the right and basically point the tires all the way hard right. It takes almost no effort to put a hand on the wheel and prevent this from happening, and if I steady the wheel while the engine settles down I can let it go and it will stay still but it's like on a hair trigger to go hard right. This is power steering.

I looked at the service manual, in the power steering section, looking at the list of problems - solutions. They do not describe this problem.

I vaguely recall that if you take the valve body off the steering gear that you will get this problem unless you putz with it during re-assembly? In this case, I did not remove the valve body.

Could this be just a case of wrong camber / castor? I totally don't know where I am in this regard, I aim to get that set correctly at some point soon.

Comments?

 

[Big_John]

I vaguely recall that if you take the valve body off the steering gear that you will get this problem unless you putz with it during re-assembly? In this case, I did not remove the valve body.

That does sound like the valve body is off. That is the only cause I've seen.

You removed and replaced the engine, correct? It's not out of possibility that the valve body got a little knock by a swinging engine. It happens.

Lots of threads on the subject here. I've never had to adjust one, so I'm not the guy to advise on that.

 

[CBODY67]

Adjustment procedure is covered in the USA C/D/P factory service manuals. Takes a bit of time, unfortunately, but done once is all it has to be done. Not a model-year-specific item.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[MoPar~Man]

Adjustment procedure is covered in the USA C/D/P factory service manuals. Takes a bit of time, unfortunately, but done once is all it has to be done. Not a model-year-specific item.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

Adjustment of what? The steering gear, or the castor / camber / toe ?

Why doesn't the service manual describe this situation in the problems / solutions section?

And one more variable to add to the mix - the power steering fluid. I was using ATF+4. After the stub swap, I have some sort of generic, actually labelled "power steering fluid" fluid. And again, this gear unit was operating properly before the swap. I did replace the worm shaft oil seal and a big o-ring.

 

[Davea Lux]

The top of the steering gear has a valve body (Pressure assist valve/spool valve) that is held in place by two bolts. The bolt holes on the valve body are slotted so that the valve body can be moved up or down. Moving the valve body will correct the self turning of the steering wheel, this should be noticeable if the wheel turns itself with the engine running and the car stopped. Scribe the position of the valve body before you take the bolts loose. That way you have a reference as to your starting point on the adjustment. You should have the wheels off the ground to make this adjustment. Note: it takes a very small amount of movement to cause the steering wheel to jerk violently to one side or the other if the adjustment is wrong. It will usually take only one or two mils to correct a self turning steering wheel. Adjustment of the spool valve is in the service manual section 19-11.

If the car only pulls to one side when driving, this is usually an alignment issue or a problem with unequal braking.

Dave

 

[JMC85284]

Go easy on the valve body adjusting (as in, don't start whacking like crazy with a ball peen - 1 or 2 light taps at most) and whatever you do, do NOT put your arm through the inner portion of the steering wheel when you start the car after adjusting it.

 

[413]

The valve needs moved just a little bit in your case. If it's way off it will turn hard and squeal the PS belt.

 

[Hap]

1967 Monaco. Front stub replaced, steering gear moved to new stub. No alignment done (yet). Tie rod adjusters adjusted by eye. Upper control arm bolts tightened in center positions. All new bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Torsion bar height adjustments made. Front end has suitable height, maybe not perfect. Wheels look straight. Only requirements I have is that I can maneuver the car in the driveway for now.

Upon engine start, with wheels pointing forward and steering wheel in correct center position, the steering wheel will start turning by itself to the right and basically point the tires all the way hard right. It takes almost no effort to put a hand on the wheel and prevent this from happening, and if I steady the wheel while the engine settles down I can let it go and it will stay still but it's like on a hair trigger to go hard right. This is power steering.

I looked at the service manual, in the power steering section, looking at the list of problems - solutions. They do not describe this problem.

I vaguely recall that if you take the valve body off the steering gear that you will get this problem unless you putz with it during re-assembly? In this case, I did not remove the valve body.

Could this be just a case of wrong camber / castor? I totally don't know where I am in this regard, I aim to get that set correctly at some point soon.

Comments?

I've had that happen before .
Loosen the bolts on the fitting the high pressure hose bolts to with the car running and tap it lightly .
The front tires will move one way or the other as you tap on it .
Stop when it moves to center and tighten back down .
Hap .

 

[Hap]

I've had that happen before .
Loosen the bolts on the fitting the high pressure hose bolts to with the car running and tap it lightly .
The front tires will move one way or the other as you tap on it .
Stop when it moves to center and tighten back down .
Hap .

What Dave said . I should have paid more attention .

 

[MoPar~Man]

I putzed with the valve body today. Tapping it backwards (ie towards the back of the car) makes the problem worse, it increases the tendency to turn to the right. I tapped it forward, but it was already close to the maximum it could be in that direction. I might have moved it a smidge more. With both front wheels off the ground, starting the engine doesn't give any sort of steering wheel kick. but it did still seem to be very touchy as far as staying still and not wanting to auto-rotate the tires to the right. With the wheels on the ground it was better. Moving the car slowly forward and reverse, the wheel feels squirrely, like it wants to turn by itself, either left or right. I don't like it. Maybe the belt could be tighter. I'll look at that tommorrow.

Edit: I did not tap or move it while the engine is running. It leaks a little when the bolts are loosened and I don't want oil all over the place when the pump is running. I loosened it, tapped it to a new position, then tightened it, then started the engine to see the effect of the new position. I trust that I don't actually need to move it *while* the engine is running...

 

[greg yoder]

1967 Monaco. Front stub replaced, steering gear moved to new stub. No alignment done (yet). Tie rod adjusters adjusted by eye. Upper control arm bolts tightened in center positions. All new bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Torsion bar height adjustments made. Front end has suitable height, maybe not perfect. Wheels look straight. Only requirements I have is that I can maneuver the car in the driveway for now. Upon engine start, with wheels pointing forward and steering wheel in correct center position, the steering wheel will start turning by itself to the right and basically point the tires all the way hard right. It takes almost no effort to put a hand on the wheel and prevent this from happening, and if I steady the wheel while the engine settles down I can let it go and it will stay still but it's like on a hair trigger to go hard right. This is power steering. I looked at the service manual, in the power steering section, looking at the list of problems - solutions. They do not describe this problem. I vaguely recall that if you take the valve body off the steering gear that you will get this problem unless you putz with it during re-assembly? In this case, I did not remove the valve body. Could this be just a case of wrong camber / castor? I totally don't know where I am in this regard, I aim to get that set correctly at some point soon. Comments?

 

[greg yoder]

1967 Monaco. Front stub replaced, steering gear moved to new stub. No alignment done (yet). Tie rod adjusters adjusted by eye. Upper control arm bolts tightened in center positions. All new bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Torsion bar height adjustments made. Front end has suitable height, maybe not perfect. Wheels look straight. Only requirements I have is that I can maneuver the car in the driveway for now. Upon engine start, with wheels pointing forward and steering wheel in correct center position, the steering wheel will start turning by itself to the right and basically point the tires all the way hard right. It takes almost no effort to put a hand on the wheel and prevent this from happening, and if I steady the wheel while the engine settles down I can let it go and it will stay still but it's like on a hair trigger to go hard right. This is power steering. I looked at the service manual, in the power steering section, looking at the list of problems - solutions. They do not describe this problem. I vaguely recall that if you take the valve body off the steering gear that you will get this problem unless you putz with it during re-assembly? In this case, I did not remove the valve body. Could this be just a case of wrong camber / castor? I totally don't know where I am in this regard, I aim to get that set correctly at some point soon. Comments?

 

[CBODY67]

The FSM doesn't mention using a drain pan as the engine is running during the adjustment, but you'll need one and some good degreaser/brake cleaner spray.

 

[myskin]

I putzed with the valve body today. Tapping it backwards (ie towards the back of the car) makes the problem worse, it increases the tendency to turn to the right. I tapped it forward, but it was already close to the maximum it could be in that direction. I might have moved it a smidge more. With both front wheels off the ground, starting the engine doesn't give any sort of steering wheel kick. but it did still seem to be very touchy as far as staying still and not wanting to auto-rotate the tires to the right. With the wheels on the ground it was better. Moving the car slowly forward and reverse, the wheel feels squirrely, like it wants to turn by itself, either left or right. I don't like it. Maybe the belt could be tighter. I'll look at that tommorrow. Edit: I did not tap or move it while the engine is running. It leaks a little when the bolts are loosened and I don't want oil all over the place when the pump is running. I loosened it, tapped it to a new position, then tightened it, then started the engine to see the effect of the new position. I trust that I don't actually need to move it *while* the engine is running...

 

[myskin]

View attachment 684716 View attachment 684717 View attachment 684718

View attachment 684716 View attachment 684717 View attachment 684718

 

[MoPar~Man]

I did this to the steering gear a month or so ago, because of a slight oil leak from the worm gear / spline connection area:

I removed everything in the red circles. The parts in the blue circle sort of fell out because nothing was left to hold them in position. Two seals and the O-ring were replaced. Removal of the notched nut-ring allows access to these parts. The housing head slides out without much trouble. Now the parts in blue are held in place by the housing head. I did not remove the NUT shown to the right of the blue parts. I did not touch / loosen or reposition the valve body containing the spool valve that is operated by the lever.

What I did here completely fixed the oil leak from this end of the steering gear. If I screwed up, it would have been with the re-installation of the parts in the blue circle, or in over-tightening or under-tightening the notched ring nut.

I have a spare steering gear that I can take parts from (particularly the valve body and lever pin) if necessary.

 

[1962 Crown Conv]

Do not use atf in the power steering system, it will overheat the seals and cause leaks. Use power steering fluid. Adjust the valve body up or down by loosening the two mounting bolts to center the steering wheel. Replace the o-rings under the valve body if leaking. Loosen the idler arm bushing bolt when you set the steering wheel to center, then retighten and the car will go straight down the road of itself

 

[MoPar~Man]

Do not use atf in the power steering system, it will overheat the seals and cause leaks. Use power steering fluid. Adjust the valve body up or down by loosening the two mounting bolts to center the steering wheel. Replace the o-rings under the valve body if leaking. Loosen the idler arm bushing bolt when you set the steering wheel to center, then retighten and the car will go straight down the road of itself

ATF today isin't what it was in 1967. Powersteering fluid today also isin't what it was in 1967.

I'd bet that ATF+4 today is a better PS fluid than what-ever was PS fluid back in 1967.

What I currently have now in my system is a combination of some no-spec generic fluid (but it's actually labelled as PS fluid so it must be correct for 1967 recirculating ball power steering systems right?) and ATF+4. It's a combo because I've moved the gear and pump around during the stub-swap and so some fluid got lost.

(what is this, exactly? No spec given anywhere on the label)

What I can say about the current state of my steering is that yes, it's power steering, I can move the wheel with no effort and the tires turn. But when my hand (or finger) is not on the wheel, it seems to want to do it's own thing. This is just idling, in drive with my foot on the brake. I've only moved the car forward and backwards 20 ft a few times since putting the front end back together. The bumper is the last thing to go on now.

In a day or two I plan on driving it down the street. Wish me luck.

 

[CBODY67]

Yes, ATF in 1967 was "Type A, Suffix A" fluid. Probably similar to a hydraulic oil with some automatic transmission-specific wear additives and "kind to the seals" items, too.

In the 1970s, I could buy PSF from the Chrysler dealer or I could buy it from a Mopar Parts jobber nearby. I bought from the jobber as they had the PSF in a quart can with a cap and rolled-edge pouring spout on it. Then, I discovered that GM PSF looked to be the same stuff, as to viscosity and color (opaque clear), so as I was working in GM parts at the dealership, that's what I used for years. Pouring it into the Chrysler can with the rolled-lip on it, so "no drips". That is still my fluid of choice, too.

To me, ATF+4 might work for NEWER Chrysler products, but not for the earlier ones.

In reality, any oil of the correct viscosity can work, it is the additive package in the oil that makes it unique to various applications/uses. Which is why ATF (other than the Type A, Suffix A atf, prior to about 1967) should not be in a vintage Chrysler PS system. Has to do with the rubber in the o-rings and seals, plus the hoses involved.

For my non-Chrysler later-model vehicles, I use Valvoline Max-Life PSF as it notes it will work well in GM vehicles. Unfortunately, it is red, like ATF!

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[MoPar~Man]

ATF in 1967 had whale oil in it. Just FYI.