thethee
Senior Member
Incredible!
Voyager 1 and 2 still alive!!!! 38,000 mph!
- Thread starter Turboomni
- Start date
Lets not forget our friend parked out a L2.
Couple days ago, our Canadian friends at University of Toronto took Webb's first "Deep Field" shot (showing the distortions of gravitational lensing) from months ago and teased out more detail.
First, the original image (its already in this thread), then detailed analysis (the "Sparkler Galaxy" by Webb vs. Hubble), then a diagram of how gravitational lensing works.
Only sending pics since mid July 2022 and Webb is gonna keep the space kids busy for decades. Broken record: IMHO, $10B well spent on Webb vs. many other things we could done with that money.
source: James Webb Space Telescope Reveals Oldest Star Clusters in the Universe
Couple days ago, our Canadian friends at University of Toronto took Webb's first "Deep Field" shot (showing the distortions of gravitational lensing) from months ago and teased out more detail.
First, the original image (its already in this thread), then detailed analysis (the "Sparkler Galaxy" by Webb vs. Hubble), then a diagram of how gravitational lensing works.
Only sending pics since mid July 2022 and Webb is gonna keep the space kids busy for decades. Broken record: IMHO, $10B well spent on Webb vs. many other things we could done with that money.
source: James Webb Space Telescope Reveals Oldest Star Clusters in the Universe
thethee
Senior Member
It's an exciting time for space exploration
3175375
Senior Member
LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
Spaceflight Now: Orion capsule leaves lunar orbit, heads for moon flyby and return to Earth – Spaceflight Now.
Orion capsule leaves lunar orbit, heads for moon flyby and return to Earth – Spaceflight Now
Orion capsule leaves lunar orbit, heads for moon flyby and return to Earth – Spaceflight Now
sources: Orion Spacecraft to Test New Entry Technique on Artemis I Mission, NASA Will Test a High Stakes Re-Entry Maneuver With Artemis 1 on Sunday
Artemis I coming home today - 54 years after Apollo 8 came back from the moon. I just learned tho -- and I am old -- about the "skip entry" technique.
The graph below gives as sense of it.
Basically you come in like always, except Artemis is doing Mach 25 (over 20,000 mph), use the atmosphere to put drag/cut some of the heat load on the heat shield, on the capsule to slow it down.
Then they "spin" the capsule (with its maneuvering thrusters) to change its center of gravity .. the effect of that changes the re-entry angle -- in the middle of the re-entry -- and the thing actually "rises" (moves HIGHER back toward space) for a bit
Then they "spin" it again to get a downward trajectory for splash-down where they want (the lines in the diagram above).
The "math" for this maneuver has been around for decades .. the real-time computational power of the guidance system on the capsule, and even the ground equipment to calculating it, couldn't do this accurately enough to take the risks out was not there.
They turn in into a "skipping stone" on demand to make it splash down in a certain place. Get it wrong, its burns up OR skips back out into space and gone forever.
Takes g-forces (caused by the deceleration before the parachutes open) too off the occupants when they finally put real people in it. Knowing where you want it to splash down also allows you to put your recovery equipment in THAT spot -- rather than multiple ships all over the ocean.
That's the theory. We'll see.
EDIT
made it.. four minute video.
Artemis I coming home today - 54 years after Apollo 8 came back from the moon. I just learned tho -- and I am old -- about the "skip entry" technique.
The graph below gives as sense of it.
Basically you come in like always, except Artemis is doing Mach 25 (over 20,000 mph), use the atmosphere to put drag/cut some of the heat load on the heat shield, on the capsule to slow it down.
Then they "spin" the capsule (with its maneuvering thrusters) to change its center of gravity .. the effect of that changes the re-entry angle -- in the middle of the re-entry -- and the thing actually "rises" (moves HIGHER back toward space) for a bit
Then they "spin" it again to get a downward trajectory for splash-down where they want (the lines in the diagram above).
The "math" for this maneuver has been around for decades .. the real-time computational power of the guidance system on the capsule, and even the ground equipment to calculating it, couldn't do this accurately enough to take the risks out was not there.
They turn in into a "skipping stone" on demand to make it splash down in a certain place. Get it wrong, its burns up OR skips back out into space and gone forever.
Takes g-forces (caused by the deceleration before the parachutes open) too off the occupants when they finally put real people in it. Knowing where you want it to splash down also allows you to put your recovery equipment in THAT spot -- rather than multiple ships all over the ocean.
That's the theory. We'll see.
EDIT
made it.. four minute video.
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a couple days ago.
A Webb "medium deep field" shot of empty space (a patch of sky about 1/12 the width of the full moon, 1 billion times fainter than human eye can see).
so, whereas these pics may look kinda the same to many of us, that's true and not true.
"True" in that everywhere Webb looks is FILLED with thousands galaxies. "Not true", in that they keep looking in different patches (eg., any patch of sky, any direction, etc,.) of sky and see same kinda things in different images.
They are also using some Hubble visible light capabilities, pointed at the same patch of sky, to get coloration details.
Plus to trained eyes of these scientists, all the "dots" show many features that help explain/confirm/refute ALL our knowledge BEFORE we parked Webb out a L2.
Simple speak .. the whole universe is FULL of stuff we don't understand but now have a chance to learn about/explain.
source: In Awe-Inspiring James Webb Telescope Image, Thousands of Galaxies Glow
another closeup of the mosaic above, from a different source: Astounding JWST Photo Shows Strip Of Galaxies Like Never Before Seen — Literally.
again, aside from obvious "stars", the fuzzy. spiral, flattish, and/or colorful "dots" of light are galaxies/proto-galaxies. the more "orangey", the future away/back in time from us.
A Webb "medium deep field" shot of empty space (a patch of sky about 1/12 the width of the full moon, 1 billion times fainter than human eye can see).
so, whereas these pics may look kinda the same to many of us, that's true and not true.
"True" in that everywhere Webb looks is FILLED with thousands galaxies. "Not true", in that they keep looking in different patches (eg., any patch of sky, any direction, etc,.) of sky and see same kinda things in different images.
They are also using some Hubble visible light capabilities, pointed at the same patch of sky, to get coloration details.
Plus to trained eyes of these scientists, all the "dots" show many features that help explain/confirm/refute ALL our knowledge BEFORE we parked Webb out a L2.
Simple speak .. the whole universe is FULL of stuff we don't understand but now have a chance to learn about/explain.
source: In Awe-Inspiring James Webb Telescope Image, Thousands of Galaxies Glow
another closeup of the mosaic above, from a different source: Astounding JWST Photo Shows Strip Of Galaxies Like Never Before Seen — Literally.
again, aside from obvious "stars", the fuzzy. spiral, flattish, and/or colorful "dots" of light are galaxies/proto-galaxies. the more "orangey", the future away/back in time from us.
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thethee
Senior Member
Isn't it amazing that humans tend to anthropomorphize inanimate objects? This makes me feel a little sad:
3175375
Senior Member
It’s crap. Similar to loving an inanimate object.
I feel two ways about "anthropomorphizing"
Taken to excess/extreme/exploitive its a buncha crap. bugs the hell outta me.
OTOH, we do it a lot here though, called our cars "she" or "he", giving them "names", etc. we do it because whatever the thing is it is tied to experiences/efforts we want to remember (with friends, comrades, family, etc). Thats ok by me. I am guilty as charged as I do it too
Armed forces people been doing it for years for their equipment. The NASA guys/gals "feel" that way about Voyager, Hubble, Webb, and a lotta other machines they "fell in love with" , so to speak, over the years. Cool by me as well.
This thing here is the Mars (InSight) seismometer losing power because a dust storm covered its solar panels. Maybe another storm will uncover it, but in the meantime its going down.
Having read about it here - 'Continent-size' dust storm takes out NASA's seismic station on Mars - it was a successful science instrument for the NASA/JPL team running it for five years.
"InSight, which stands for Interior Exploration using Seismic Investigations, Geodesy and Heat Transport, landed on Mars in 2018 with the primary mission of listening to the pulse of Mars using a seismometer and studying the planet's deep interior.
The lander's mission was originally extended until the end of the year, but due to the storm, it is unlikely to continue operations through the extension.
Scientists say the lander has long since surpassed its primary mission and is conducting "bonus science" missions by measuring marsquakes through its extension."
Given what they have learned from it, what it took to get it there, living and breathing it for five years, I get they "feel" something for it.
And, they arent trying to get me send money or some exploitive BS like that, but rather lamenting its performance and now loss thereof for there teams and other scientists using the data.
I get it .. on this one, I give 'em a pass for losing the "old girl".
Taken to excess/extreme/exploitive its a buncha crap. bugs the hell outta me.
OTOH, we do it a lot here though, called our cars "she" or "he", giving them "names", etc. we do it because whatever the thing is it is tied to experiences/efforts we want to remember (with friends, comrades, family, etc). Thats ok by me. I am guilty as charged as I do it too
Armed forces people been doing it for years for their equipment. The NASA guys/gals "feel" that way about Voyager, Hubble, Webb, and a lotta other machines they "fell in love with" , so to speak, over the years. Cool by me as well.
This thing here is the Mars (InSight) seismometer losing power because a dust storm covered its solar panels. Maybe another storm will uncover it, but in the meantime its going down.
Having read about it here - 'Continent-size' dust storm takes out NASA's seismic station on Mars - it was a successful science instrument for the NASA/JPL team running it for five years.
"InSight, which stands for Interior Exploration using Seismic Investigations, Geodesy and Heat Transport, landed on Mars in 2018 with the primary mission of listening to the pulse of Mars using a seismometer and studying the planet's deep interior.
The lander's mission was originally extended until the end of the year, but due to the storm, it is unlikely to continue operations through the extension.
Scientists say the lander has long since surpassed its primary mission and is conducting "bonus science" missions by measuring marsquakes through its extension."
Given what they have learned from it, what it took to get it there, living and breathing it for five years, I get they "feel" something for it.
And, they arent trying to get me send money or some exploitive BS like that, but rather lamenting its performance and now loss thereof for there teams and other scientists using the data.
I get it .. on this one, I give 'em a pass for losing the "old girl".
One of the things that chapped my a** (even as a 10 year-old kid): of what lifted off the ground, the % of all that that we did NOT get back (i.e., couldn't reuse).
sources: How NASA's new megarocket stacks up against its legendary predecessor, NASA's Space Shuttle | History of the reusable spacecraft | BBC Sky at Night Magazine, NASA - The External Tank, NASA picks SpaceX's Starship to land Artemis astronauts on the moon, Super heavy-lift launch vehicle - Wikipedia
Virtually NO part of Mercury, Gemini, or Apollo launch systems were reusable. Even the crew capsules were toast after re-entry. As amazing as they were, a lot of parts (and money, therefore, somebody got paid to build NEW every time) are on the bottom of the ocean/burned up on re-entry.
The external tank (orange thing) was the only thing not reused on space shuttle launch system. It essential was the shuttle's "gas tank" all the way to orbit, then it was jettisoned and intended to burn up in the atmosphere. Guess the one in the video is on its way to its fate. .. but at $75 million each, that's a waste.
The new SLS (the Artemis Block 1) is more reusable than Apollo, less than Shuttle, but still throws away a bunch of stuff after one use. And the orange things, while carried over a bit FROM shuttle as a "gas tank", now that engines in it too. It still can't be reused.
NASA has a deal with SpaceX "Starship", to get to the moon in 2025 at 13% of what NASA can do it for .. principally because ole' Elon's rig is highly reusable. We'll see. I am rootin' for them.
Russia may be kaput after their antics. China? They might do ok.
sources: How NASA's new megarocket stacks up against its legendary predecessor, NASA's Space Shuttle | History of the reusable spacecraft | BBC Sky at Night Magazine, NASA - The External Tank, NASA picks SpaceX's Starship to land Artemis astronauts on the moon, Super heavy-lift launch vehicle - Wikipedia
Virtually NO part of Mercury, Gemini, or Apollo launch systems were reusable. Even the crew capsules were toast after re-entry. As amazing as they were, a lot of parts (and money, therefore, somebody got paid to build NEW every time) are on the bottom of the ocean/burned up on re-entry.
The external tank (orange thing) was the only thing not reused on space shuttle launch system. It essential was the shuttle's "gas tank" all the way to orbit, then it was jettisoned and intended to burn up in the atmosphere. Guess the one in the video is on its way to its fate. .. but at $75 million each, that's a waste.
The new SLS (the Artemis Block 1) is more reusable than Apollo, less than Shuttle, but still throws away a bunch of stuff after one use. And the orange things, while carried over a bit FROM shuttle as a "gas tank", now that engines in it too. It still can't be reused.
NASA has a deal with SpaceX "Starship", to get to the moon in 2025 at 13% of what NASA can do it for .. principally because ole' Elon's rig is highly reusable. We'll see. I am rootin' for them.
Russia may be kaput after their antics. China? They might do ok.
Planetary system TOI 700 has been now determined to have TWO earth-sized planets (of five total found so far) IN the "habitable zone" around their sun. They found TOI 700 e. This system is 100 light years away from us.
source: NASA’s TESS Discovers Planetary System’s Second Earth-Size World
The habitable zone (or "Goldilocks" zone) means the planet's orbit around its sun results in temperatures ON the planet where liquid water could exist ON the surface.
Earth is in our Sun's habitable zone.
By contrast, Mercury and Venus are TOO close to the Sun so any water there evaporated/burned off a long time ago. Venus has another issue .. runaway greenhouse effect means its 900 degrees F on the surface. No liquid water there on the surface anyway.
Mars on the other hand, while on the outer edge of the Sun's habitable zone, currently has insufficient atmosphere (like our moon in that regard) to hold its water in liquid form on the surface.
Mars has ice on it, but some billion's of years ago it liquid water once flowed there. We have proved that with the machines we have crawling/flying around.
TOI 700 star is a red dwarf. about 1/3 size and 2/3 the surface temp of our Sun. that means, generally speaking, its planets could be closer to that sun than our Sun - and still be in THAT sun's Goldilocks zone.
TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite) found the first Earth-sized planet around TOI 700 (TOI 700 a).
Basically it works by measuring the dimming (like the old Kepler telescope) of a sun's light when one of its orbiting planets passes by. The planet dims the star light very slightly but TESS can measure the dimming. Obviously TESS needs line-of-sight to work.
Moral of the story so far. There's billions of planets in THIS galaxy alone. And there are billions/maybe trillions of galaxies in the Universe.
Is the only place there's life like us on THIS rock we live on? The numbers say that's highly, highly, highly unlikely. There may be a billion planets in habitable zones around their suns, with liquid water on the surface, just in THIS galaxy.
But life like us? That still could happen. Maybe not.
Or, they may show up here one day in their spaceships (if they haven't already visited) and turn us into hamburger for their dinner tables.
One day maybe we'll get ET's phone call. IF the call came from TOI 700 system, and arrived today, it would be 100 years for our reply to get to them. Better get some folks working on "warp drive".
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source: NASA’s Webb Confirms Its First Exoplanet
Well only a matter of time.
JWST confirms its first exoplanet (planet around some other stars than ours, we know about 5,000 of them now). and its about same size rock as the one we live on.
LHS 475 b. "Only" 41 light years away. You can nerd out at the link.
TESS (post #536) targeted it via its transit method, Jimbo comfirmed transit using its transit tools, and is checkin' it out spectra for atmospheric composition, IF any. Recall this was one of things Webb was designed to do.
Earth-size means possible it has a gravity similar to ours. Its closer to its sun than us, but ITS sun is a red dwarf (smaller and cooler than our sun). If they find oxygen, hydrogen, methane, water vapor -- that's gonna be on front page of very remaining newspaper in the world.
Doesn't mean life is there .. but it would confirm the best possibility we've ever found in our history.
First spectra indicates NO appreciable atmosphere on LHS 475 b. If that's finally confirmed, and IF in habitable zone, it would NOT be likely to have life like us NOW on it.
So, one down, a billion exoplanets to go. Space kids are freakin' out how good Jimbo really is.
Well only a matter of time.
JWST confirms its first exoplanet (planet around some other stars than ours, we know about 5,000 of them now). and its about same size rock as the one we live on.
LHS 475 b. "Only" 41 light years away. You can nerd out at the link.
TESS (post #536) targeted it via its transit method, Jimbo comfirmed transit using its transit tools, and is checkin' it out spectra for atmospheric composition, IF any. Recall this was one of things Webb was designed to do.
Earth-size means possible it has a gravity similar to ours. Its closer to its sun than us, but ITS sun is a red dwarf (smaller and cooler than our sun). If they find oxygen, hydrogen, methane, water vapor -- that's gonna be on front page of very remaining newspaper in the world.
Doesn't mean life is there .. but it would confirm the best possibility we've ever found in our history.
First spectra indicates NO appreciable atmosphere on LHS 475 b. If that's finally confirmed, and IF in habitable zone, it would NOT be likely to have life like us NOW on it.
So, one down, a billion exoplanets to go. Space kids are freakin' out how good Jimbo really is.
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If you miss it, it will be 10,000+ years before you see it again. January 21 in northern hemisphere, need binoculars unless it dark enough.
source: Green Comet
Last fella to see it was "Cheddar Man" -- but he didn't know what he was looking at.
source: Green Comet
Last fella to see it was "Cheddar Man" -- but he didn't know what he was looking at.
From January 23. From JWST. 630M light years away. An ice cloud in a star forming region.
This one has "a wide range of molecules, from carbonyl sulfide, ammonia, and methane, to the simplest complex organic molecule, methanol. (The researchers considered organic molecules to be complex when having six or more atoms.) This is the most comprehensive census to date of the icy ingredients available to make future generations of stars and planets, before they are heated during the formation of young stars."
In other words, in the deepest, darkest coldest parts of space, everywhere you look, the molecules in the "space dust" (the wispy materials in the pic, mostly blue and some orange, illuminated by nearby/background stars), that winds up in some young sun(s), and planets around them, that sometimes turns into the kinda life like us.
And this dust has been out there "forever" (probably from 12+ billion years ago shortly after the big bang). Suggests the possibility of beings "like us" is there too, maybe even come and gone in all that time.
The proof the "possibility" of other life is one of the reasons JWST is up there. OR, in all the vastness, it could be just us?
The search for new stuff continues ...
source: Webb Unveils Dark Side of Pre-stellar Ice Chemistry
This one has "a wide range of molecules, from carbonyl sulfide, ammonia, and methane, to the simplest complex organic molecule, methanol. (The researchers considered organic molecules to be complex when having six or more atoms.) This is the most comprehensive census to date of the icy ingredients available to make future generations of stars and planets, before they are heated during the formation of young stars."
In other words, in the deepest, darkest coldest parts of space, everywhere you look, the molecules in the "space dust" (the wispy materials in the pic, mostly blue and some orange, illuminated by nearby/background stars), that winds up in some young sun(s), and planets around them, that sometimes turns into the kinda life like us.
And this dust has been out there "forever" (probably from 12+ billion years ago shortly after the big bang). Suggests the possibility of beings "like us" is there too, maybe even come and gone in all that time.
The proof the "possibility" of other life is one of the reasons JWST is up there. OR, in all the vastness, it could be just us?
The search for new stuff continues ...
source: Webb Unveils Dark Side of Pre-stellar Ice Chemistry
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source: A Spiral Amongst Thousands
From Webb yesterday. Description under photo. Nearly everything WITHOUT the diffraction spikes (link in description on those) is a galaxy. The reddish ones multi-billion LY away.
"A crowded field of galaxies throngs this Picture of the Month from the NASA/ESA/CSA James Webb Space Telescope, along with bright stars crowned with Webb's six-point diffraction spikes.
The large spiral galaxy at the base of this image is accompanied by a profusion of smaller, more distant galaxies which range from fully-fledged spirals to mere bright smudges.
Named LEDA 2046648, it is situated a little over a billion light-years from Earth, in the constellation Hercules."
From Webb yesterday. Description under photo. Nearly everything WITHOUT the diffraction spikes (link in description on those) is a galaxy. The reddish ones multi-billion LY away.
"A crowded field of galaxies throngs this Picture of the Month from the NASA/ESA/CSA James Webb Space Telescope, along with bright stars crowned with Webb's six-point diffraction spikes.
The large spiral galaxy at the base of this image is accompanied by a profusion of smaller, more distant galaxies which range from fully-fledged spirals to mere bright smudges.
Named LEDA 2046648, it is situated a little over a billion light-years from Earth, in the constellation Hercules."
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