Yet ANOTHER No Oil Pressure 383 Tale of Woe and Bafflement

[bluefury361]

be on the lookout for a bent or dislodged pushrod before reving above an idle. If the lifters collapsed due to loss of oil pressure then one or more could be an issue.

 

[Gerald Morris]

From what you describe, it is a possibility the pump could be the issue, that's n easy pull off and dismantle job, check the rotor for scoring and wear, and look at the check valve for crud and stickiness. If that shows no problems then yes go to the next job of dropping the pan, it may be a bit more work but it isn't that bad.

Just so you know, your hint proved to be most relevant for restoring functionality to my oil pump. The relief valve wasn't clogged; ... IT WAS LOOSE!!! The bolt was just finger tight. I guess a sloppy install combined with engine vibration produced this effect. Sooooooo....

I removed, cleaned and inspected the pump. Feeling good suction on my thumb, I packed the pump w Vaseline, remounted it, TIGHTENED THAT RELIEF VALVE BOLT GOOD, drained the oil (DAMN it go black fast!) poured it back in for the moment, left the ignition disconnected and used the starter to pump some oil up top. Then, I started it. ECCE!!! There is my normal 50 psi cold oil pressure! So, I suspect that the pump just lost its prime yesterday from a loose relief valve bolt, introducing a vacuum leak. NOW, I just need to be sure of my lifters, cam, valves, et al.

I expect I've at least one diddled lifter out of this business. Pulled passenger side valve cover and saw plenty oil pooled nicely on rocker arms, just where you want it from the push-rods. Noted that valve cover gasket was NOT even installed properly, and the little idiot who sold me this ride had tried some crap from a collapsible tube, which he likely tried huffing given the quality of his work. Its a MIRACLE this motor ran a day, let alone since St. Patrick's Day. Again, the bolts were nigh finger-loose. I'm sure the driver side is no better.

Since I'm now clearly raped out of working motor transport by the 2nd Law of Thermo, I might as well get all the damned gaskets for pulling the top off this block. Likely gonna have to grovel to the N-lawz also. No matter, its STILL the best car we could have got for the money, and will be so much better when properly rebuilt.

 

[Gerald Morris]

be on the lookout for a bent or dislodged pushrod before reving above an idle. If the lifters collapsed due to loss of oil pressure then one or more could be an issue.

No pushrod GROSSLY OR OBVIOUSLY bent on passenger side. Will check driver side 2morrow. The wife now knows how badly diddled we are and how blessedly lucky as well. I showed her how insanely incompetent the former owners attempt at a mere valve cover gasket was, and that persuaded her that 1.) We had been driving a Fools Paradise Ride and 2.) Now is the Time to Wise Up. I'll find a good true flat glass pane to check the push rods soon enough.

It SOUNDS like I've got 1-2 collapsed, stuck lifters right now. Oh I'm NOT taking it over idle, and haven't since I first saw that oil pressure had dropped to nil yestereve. I HATED even doing that, but had I left that car where I stopped it, it wouldn't have stayed put an hour. FEW anglophone speakers in this barrio, and all the vatos LOVE our car, "Sabe usted?"

Thx for the tip. I'm right on the same page w you here.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Lifter can be dry and it may take a while to stop making sounds. Could start it and rev few times to 2-3k rpm, usually idling doesnt remove lifter tapping noise. In worst case scenario... you already have a wiped cam lobe.

Hmmm, how about some moistening the lifter voodoo first then? Would you recommend draining a pint of the fresh oil I put in and adding a pint of ATF to possibly free up a stuck, dry lifter? From what I saw up front, by the distributor, the cam appeared to have a nice bit of oil still on it yestereve when I first popped the distributor off. Of course, I only could see the first lobe.... I really hate the idea of even bringing the motor up to 1k as she is, but it DID occur to me that 500 rpm might NOT be enough to stop that nerve wracking TAP-TAP! At least I can take solace in having tuned, timed this motor well, and putting the old distributor back on just right. Even now, she fired right up with just a bump of the key. That's hopeful I reckon...

 

[cantflip]

Hmmm, how about some moistening the lifter voodoo first then? Would you recommend draining a pint of the fresh oil I put in and adding a pint of ATF to possibly free up a stuck, dry lifter? From what I saw up front, by the distributor, the cam appeared to have a nice bit of oil still on it yestereve when I first popped the distributor off. Of course, I only could see the first lobe.... I really hate the idea of even bringing the motor up to 1k as she is, but it DID occur to me that 500 rpm might NOT be enough to stop that nerve wracking TAP-TAP! At least I can take solace in having tuned, timed this motor well, and putting the old distributor back on just right. Even now, she fired right up with just a bump of the key. That's hopeful I reckon...

If you go the route of ATF to free things up... you will be throwing away all of the current oil anyhow... but, yes, please don't over fill in the process. 1 pint over is unlikely to foam especially at idle, but I would drain some out first just because I'm like that.

The big problem with a dry lifter is convincing the air to come out. They often will pump back up at idle speed and be fine afterwards. Try letting it run a full warmup cycle so the oil thins enough to (hopefully) push it out before you get any higher engine speeds involved. There was an issue with lifter bleed down on sitting engines in the 90s where the TSB stated the lifters couldn't bleed out under load conditions on certain engines due to small passages and specifically recommended idling the engine for 30-60 minutes IIRC. I don't even recall which engines it referred to, but it has been my experience that a long idle will often solve this.

If your budget is that tight, you may want to hold onto the current oil a little longer. It shouldn't hurt to let her tick at idle for a little while... but I wouldn't go to higher RPMs like that. I wish you luck.

 

[tallhair]

One note of caution to ponder before you proceed

If you put some ATF in it to clean out that lifter, it's not the only thing you be cleaning. The ATF will also be cleaning a whole bunch of stuff that's currently happily resting in the lifter valley low spots secured in sludge or the bottom of the oil pan in sludge, all happy and content. If you introduce the ATF that bad stuff may get cleaned free of it's current lodgings and go looking for a new place to rest. I would only do this step right before removing the oil pan, pick up tube, and the oil pump again, for a good cleaning and as you are getting the gaskets, the intake as well to clean up the remaining sludge in the lifter valley depressions. I wouldn't run the ATF through it and decide it was good to go after that and only another oil change ... not that you would but I thought it worth mentioning as food for thought.

 

[cantflip]

One note of caution to ponder before you proceed

If you put some ATF in it to clean out that lifter, it's not the only thing you be cleaning. The ATF will also be cleaning a whole bunch of stuff that's currently happily resting in the lifter valley low spots secured in sludge or the bottom of the oil pan in sludge, all happy and content. If you introduce the ATF that bad stuff may get cleaned free of it's current lodgings and go looking for a new place to rest. I would only do this step right before removing the oil pan, pick up tube, and the oil pump again, for a good cleaning and as you are getting the gaskets, the intake as well to clean up the remaining sludge in the lifter valley depressions. I wouldn't run the ATF through it and decide it was good to go after that and only another oil change ... not that you would but I thought it worth mentioning as food for thought.

Agreed. I always allow 12-24 hours sitting time after installing the ATF and running the engine through a warmup cycle. It has been my experience that it will soften carbon and sludge pretty good with enough "working time". Run it through a second warmup cycle before changing. Too little time could spell big disasters... and you may need an additional oil change pretty fast if the ATF manages to dissolve lots of crap. I generally reserve this method for engines that give a symptom of sludge or carbon issues... with the valve covers off and the valley exposed... the guesswork is gone on that matter.

 

[bluefury361]

[QUOTE="tallhair,

If you put some ATF in it to clean out that lifter, it's not the only thing you be cleaning. If you introduce the ATF that bad stuff may get cleaned free of it's current lodgings and go looking for a new place to rest.QUOTE]

Good advice. One of those places would be the oil filter, which could become clogged.

 

[Gerald Morris]

If you go the route of ATF to free things up... you will be throwing away all of the current oil anyhow... but, yes, please don't over fill in the process. 1 pint over is unlikely to foam especially at idle, but I would drain some out first just because I'm like that.

The big problem with a dry lifter is convincing the air to come out. They often will pump back up at idle speed and be fine afterwards. Try letting it run a full warmup cycle so the oil thins enough to (hopefully) push it out before you get any higher engine speeds involved. There was an issue with lifter bleed down on sitting engines in the 90s where the TSB stated the lifters couldn't bleed out under load conditions on certain engines due to small passages and specifically recommended idling the engine for 30-60 minutes IIRC. I don't even recall which engines it referred to, but it has been my experience that a long idle will often solve this.

If your budget is that tight, you may want to hold onto the current oil a little longer. It shouldn't hurt to let her tick at idle for a little while... but I wouldn't go to higher RPMs like that. I wish you luck.

Many thanks for your sentiments AND sound advice. I think I'll try exactly the procedure you've mentioned, as soon as I get some new valve cover gaskets. The pot-puffer young vato who sold me this car couldn't even put THOSE on properly, as I feared, and now verified, so I'm going to replace both of them with some nice cork after cleaning off every trace of "Stickum N a Toob" which he slathered on to the old rubberized fiber gasket and valve cover contact surfaces. It was a HUGE relief to me to see oil puddled on top of each and every rocker arm as well as on all the liquid retaining surfaces of the head itself.

I'll run a nice long idle @ 500 rpm for an hr with the new 10-40W synthetic blend Valvoline I poured in last night. God-willing, this will suffice to restore the lifters to something like proper condition for their age and state of wear. Long ago, I certainly abused Ford 351Cs FAR worse than anything like this little ugly surprise this Monday, and those motors, with their poor oiling but high power and hormone addled idiot stomping the accelerator survived some outrageous mal-lubrication. I learned the ATF trick for dry lifters then, and it will do if they're not too badly done in.

Maybe, Deo-volente, I can even accept delivery of that pair of nice WW Mastercraft 225-70-R15s I ordered from Wally-wurld! The only reason I've neglected the engine as I have so far is it has run quite reliably, starting every time if not on the first bump of the key, then a second when the motor and ambient temperature both are on the hot, dry and THIN side of what a carbureted engine will run with. This being so, I've focused on the front-end, brakes and tires, as I need to keep this car SAFE for the precious cargo I oft have on-board. THEY are why we bought Mathilda to begin with, and all my sweat, blood, curses and tears are a Litany of Love for them.

Again, many thanks for your good regards.

 

[Gerald Morris]

One note of caution to ponder before you proceed

If you put some ATF in it to clean out that lifter, it's not the only thing you be cleaning. The ATF will also be cleaning a whole bunch of stuff that's currently happily resting in the lifter valley low spots secured in sludge or the bottom of the oil pan in sludge, all happy and content. If you introduce the ATF that bad stuff may get cleaned free of it's current lodgings and go looking for a new place to rest. I would only do this step right before removing the oil pan, pick up tube, and the oil pump again, for a good cleaning and as you are getting the gaskets, the intake as well to clean up the remaining sludge in the lifter valley depressions. I wouldn't run the ATF through it and decide it was good to go after that and only another oil change ... not that you would but I thought it worth mentioning as food for thought.

After weighing cost/benefit on this move, I'm holding OFF on the ATF voodoo until AFTER I try a simple, gentle warm-up and idle for 60-90- minutes. Given how BADLY the peripherals have been bolted on to this motor, with loose bolts all over the place, I'm more than ever firm in my conviction regarding God AND Guardian Angels, as I can't come up with any better explanation for why this motor runs, and did so reliably since St. Patrick's Day.

Neverminding theology, my approach has been 1.) if it ain't broke, don't "fix" it and 2.) first make sure it will steer and stop properly, and drive safely. To wit: front end, brakes and tires came first.

BIG thanks for reminding me about the consequences of cleaning out an old motor so. I've had similar experience with high detergent oils, engine flush (consisting mostly of kerosene or diesel as it turned out) as well as ATF, so yes, I'll hold off until it becomes obvious there is no other choice.

 

[Gerald Morris]

[QUOTE="tallhair,

If you put some ATF in it to clean out that lifter, it's not the only thing you be cleaning. If you introduce the ATF that bad stuff may get cleaned free of it's current lodgings and go looking for a new place to rest.QUOTE]

Good advice. One of those places would be the oil filter, which could become clogged.

Right on. I'm belaying the ATF order at present. Muchas gracias!

 

[Gerald Morris]

ALL IS WELL NOW! I idled for a total of 34 min. The first 8 produced a drop in 90% of the lifter clatter. By 20 min., the wife and I agreed the noise had reduced by 99%. By 30 min., we agreed it was back to pre-July 4 level. Since there has been a faint, ghostly lifter tick since we purchased Mathilda, we said prayers of thanksgiving that we don't have to purchase an engine this week, and that I was inspired to peruse FCBO and take my issue before this august body for their wisdom, both individual and collective.

We're planning to go ahead and pick up our new tires Monday. To ALL my Elder Brethren here, a BIG Thank You.

 

[300rag]

.. this august body for their wisdom, both individual and collective.

...

Some of the old men with hats are going to have a tough time putting them on now.

 

[bluefury361]

Some of the old men with hats are going to have a tough time putting them on now.

Naaaaa....... same stuff, different day.

 

[cantflip]

All that matters here is Gandalf has yet to fail... and still doesn't need a bus pass.