1968 plymouth fury III PX23G8D243539 project

[saylor]

stardate 20190907.1556 - pulley change

i took all the A/C stuff and the orig leaky p/s pump and the dual belt setup

and reinstalled it here

then i took all the stuff off the front of the 383 non A/C engine
and installed it here

notice the leak around the water neck that i couldnt see b/c of the A/C head..

so i removed it and regooped it with copious amounts of rtv blue. i had red on there previously, but tbh it looks like the paper gasket disintegrated already.

the ALT is rigged in there, but its as-was on the 383 and it worked for me for years and is how i got the car so we shall see.

 

[saylor]

thusly

 

[saylor]

o BTW for the kids trying this at home - the big drive pulley on the crank / balancer is different A/C to non-A/C, or 383 to 440 not sure which (both conditions?) but the pulley arrangement is different for sure.

 

[saylor]

came out to the car today and saw muh hoses collapsed top and bottom.

took the stant cap off and put the o.e. cap back on.


got all the wiring cleaned up from changing from points to orange box.
realized i forgot to finish filling up the transmission - i had filled it but forgotten to install the driveshaft so it leaked out. then i put the driveshaft in, but never came back and refilled...
i ran maybe 15 minutes before it got too hot and i shut it down again.

burned my arm on top of the radiator again, so i did this

 

[saylor]

does anyone ever really test the thermostat?

im probably going to put the 180 back as the 160 really didnt gain me anything

 

[65sporty]

does anyone ever really test the thermostat?
View attachment 317074

Yes, I have done it and I am sure others have also.

 

[saylor]

WAI IS MUH CAR MOTOR RUNNING SO HAWT ALL I WANNA DO IS DRIVE ARGH GASP


REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[saylor]

can the water pump be upside down? as long as its spinning in the correct direction? does it matter?

i was thinking of taking the W/P off my 383 and swapping it out - known good unit and all that.

 

[65sporty]

Is the water pump housing a factory piece or aftermarket? You have the fans pulling air through the radiator? Not pushing? Right?

 

[saylor]

stock water pump housing original to this motor. the W/P is either an autozone or summitracing one I dont remember exactly which one i put on here. post-install i noticed the weep hole on top. looking at the 383 motor the W/P is stamped T O P on one end, this one is unmarked, but is assumed I guess that the weep hole goes on bottom.

looking at the backside of the W/P, there are no flow-directional chambers or anything - to me it looks like it should work either upside down or not. since im fighting this heat issue I figured id ask if it can be on upside down or if thats even a thing.

my plan is:
put 180 t-stat back in and re-test ( i drilled a 1/8" hole in it - it had none 1st test around)
take 180 t-stat out of known good 383 motor and re-test in the 440 ( this t-stat has the little 1/8" bleeder hole in it with the wiggle tab)
take W/P out of known good 383 motor and re-test in the 440.
ditch the cold-case rad + elec fans and put stock rad+ fixed fan back on and re-test.

so far ive got about $200 in coolant down the alley so why stop now

 

[saylor]

also check on the fans. when we first first hooked up, we did have them reversed. we thought it was impressive volume of air. but then we reversed wires and blew the old ladys wig off.

 

[65sporty]

What size is the radiator? Same as the stock one? Your sure the temp gauge is reading correctly? Good brand gauge not a cheap one?

 

[saylor]

its a cold case rad with cold case dual fans and shroud. i think its like a 457 model or so (?) id have to go look to see wht they sent me.
it seemed to hold +4gal IIRC.
i have the cheapest temp gauge possible but it is a known good unit as was on the motor i took out for this heap i put in here.
i have it idling decently and put a 750 edlebrock on so i dont think its lean.

ive been sitting in my driveway at 2k r.p.m. breaking in the motor and have to shut down due to hi temps. up to now i havent just let it sit at idle to see what it will do, but ive ran the motor +30 minutes so hopefully met the comp cams demand for break in time. so ill change the oil out from break in oil to vr1 this weekend.

 

[saylor]

im thinkin about trying the stock rad and/or stock fan. i dunno what else to do. right now i have a 180* t-stat with a hole in it and that let me run a good long time, but eventually it climbed up to too hot. the previous t-stat didnt have a hole in it.

i can at least say i ran the motor for 30 minutes with break in oil, for sure.

 

[saylor]

pulled a random plug and read it - its says im hot / lean. didnt have any good ring on it and was kinda dry and shiny lookin. autolite 85 plugs gapped at i dunno .035 or whatevr it was i guess i should check that again - should i get cooler plugs tho? does that really make any diff?

 

[C-Sick]

Pretty much anything will run to overheat during the 20-30 minute cam break in at 2000-2500 RPM. Super common, and you'll often see guys park a 36" industrial box fan in front of the car during a break in like that.

Your water pump is upside down, but it still rotates the same direction so aside from the weep hole now being useless it shouldn't make a difference.

I bet it idles at a perfectly sane temperature now, and goes down the road at the same perfectly sane temperature.

What is your timing set at BTW?

 

[mr. fix it]

came out to the car today and saw muh hoses collapsed top and bottom.
View attachment 317010
took the stant cap off and put the o.e. cap back on.


got all the wiring cleaned up from changing from points to orange box.
realized i forgot to finish filling up the transmission - i had filled it but forgotten to install the driveshaft so it leaked out. then i put the driveshaft in, but never came back and refilled...
i ran maybe 15 minutes before it got too hot and i shut it down again.

burned my arm on top of the radiator again, so i did this
View attachment 317011

It looks like no one commented on the collapsed rad hoses.

This is caused by a defective Radiator cap.
The hoses will collapse if the cap doesn't allow air or coolant from the over flow bottle to re-enter the system when cooling down

Your comment of putting the OE cap back on was a good step to take.

 

[saylor]

after sleeping on it, I think im going to jet up the carb richer. just bought a tune kit for the 1411 eddy carb - should be here tomorrow. im lean. im hot. everything else is checking out OK - water pump flow thru rad good, no leaks, tried a variety of t-stat temp ranges. set the timing initially by lamp then later by ear/feel til it pinged and backed off a hair - we thought we could get a bit more out of it. im probably around ~30something-ish @ 2000 rpm it runs good and strong and no flutter or farts etc. summit elec dist with orange box. comes down from go to a really stable idle with no blips in it at all im not inclined to do too much more with timing unless other parameters make me adjust it again.

no more collapsed hoses with the o.e. cap I threw that stant cap in the trash.

1/8" hole in the t-stat seemed to get me way farther in run time but still ended up on the hot side. but if you buy a t-stat with no bleeder drill a 1/8" hole into that puppy.

I had it running yesterday. I was up front watching the fan spin or something, and all of a sudden it started running like total ***. I was like o **** I cooked it there it goes I lost a cam lobe or piston is grinding or something.. it started sputtering and the idle dropped a noticeable amount and shivered and ran like general crap.

I shut it off and went inside and sat in a corner for a while and rocked back and forth in the fetal position. told my old lady i just made a 5grand piece of boat anchor. then I came out to take stock of what just happened, and found that a plug wire had fallen off... wew lad.

im gonna jet up and check the floats and all that. will post later.

- saylor

 

[65sporty]

I shut it off and went inside and sat in a corner for a while and rocked back and forth in the fetal position.

- saylor

 

[saylor]

i already learned some stuff about tuning edlebrock carbs and havent even turned a screw yet...
i bought a 1411 750cfm edlebrock because electric choke (thats currently not hooked up and zip tied full open).
im an edlebrock guy maybe im the lucky guy you always read about every eddy carb ive ever had just slaps on and works pretty much. had a 600cfm on the 383 that was from the swap meet - bolt on and go.

so back to this edlebrock 1411 750 cfm carb with electric choke -
TIL the electric choke carbs they make are set lean - like compared to the manual choke versions of the same models.
if you look at teh specs of the jets and rods, its true.
the base carb 1407 and 1411 is supposed to be the same, only the jets / rods are different. like the 1405/1406, etc., same series model numbers. and electric choke or not.

so right no problemo ill just buy the jets / rods / springs kit for the 1411 and set it the same as the base 1407.
$60 bucks for a tuning kit - wow kinda pricy there eddy. but i need it so whatever.

so then i get to learning their carb tuning charts and studying the interwebs. this one post i find - maybe at Bbodsonly or the dry dock - the dude says lookit the edlebrock charts - the biggest size in the 'lean' or electric choke kit is only 1 step up on the chart as compared to the 'performance' or manual choke version of the same model.

by krackey hes right. so my tune kit is #1489 for the 1411 carburetor.
if i use the max settings available in the 1489 kit, then look at the 1407 chart, ive only moved 1 step sideways/to the right which is 'power' mode. i need to move up on the chart - richer in the 'cruise' mode.

so i just ordered the #1480 kit - the kit that is designed for the manual choke carburetor. in fact it has a wider assortment of choices than the #1489 kit. its just a marketing ploy kids dont fall for it.

same thing applies to the smaller carb kits - check them out before you spend $60 on it see whats in the kit and understand the chart and which direction on the chart you intend to move.