1969 Imperial progress thread

[Ripinator]

Those old original Holley 4160 carbs are a disaster to try to rebuild. The metering blocks warp internally as do the bowls even with low mileage examples and heat cycling takes its toll. Rarely can I rebuild one of those things successfully, and I have done many other carburetors with good results (another problem is the Holley 2210 2 bbl carbs which also warp). . . . If you have to keep a Holley 4 bbl carb on the Imperial, I would get a new one, or better yet, just swap to the AVS Carter carburetors and never have to be troubled again.

Is this true of all Holleys or just those you mention (4160 & 2210) ?

 

[70NPORT]

Wow, nice work Vodka. I pop in and out of this thread and everytime I do your further along. Bravo. Your really making me miss my old Imperial LeBaron even more now,lol.

 

[saforwardlook]

Is this true of all Holleys or just those you mention (4160 & 2210) ?

The only other Holley's I worked with were the single barrel carburetors, and their design was more conventional, except for the fuel bowls, much like the Carters otherwise, and they gave me no problems. While not original, I believe that the newer Holleys you can buy today are pretty well built using good metal for the castings, and when Holley's are new, they do run well. But they are overly complex and any carburetor design that uses assemblies that rely on vertical sealing gaskets for the fuel are a real problem waiting to happen - Carter never did anything that unwise. All their fuel sealing gaskets are on horizontal planes. Much less to prone to fuel leaks when they get older. I do think that Holleys in general did have better accelerator pump designs than Carter as long as those relying on diaphragms didn't leak too. The had better driveability adjustments than the Carters for the pumps.

 

[vdk2010]

Those old original Holley 4160 carbs are a disaster to try to rebuild. The metering blocks warp internally as do the bowls even with low mileage examples and heat cycling takes its toll. Rarely can I rebuild one of those things successfully, and I have done many other carburetors with good results (another problem is the Holley 2210 2 bbl carbs which also warp). I got my first exposure to this reality when I worked at Chrysler in the carburetor lab in 1972 and I asked the Holley rep on site at the time why I was having trouble rebuilding my 4160 on my 29K mile 1970 300 that I had bought used at the time - the rep said forget about rebuilding it, and just get a new one. They weren't worth rebuilding then and they are even less worth trying to rebuild now. In contrast, Carter WCFBs, AFBs and AVS carburetors are a breeze to rebuild if you clean the clusters really well and the Thermoquads are usually easy too, although I have had a couple of those that defied the effort due to something unexplained to me yet regarding warping of the plastic body most likely. If you have to keep a Holley 4 bbl carb on the Imperial, I would get a new one, or better yet, just swap to the AVS Carter carburetors and never have to be troubled again.

Thank you for your great assessment! Where were you when I asked if the carb is worth a rebuild?

Now, I have all the parts to do a rebuild and the disassambled card is already soaking. Is there a good way to see if the carb is warped? Can I measure it and when, where do I have to measure?
If its warped, I can sell the rebuild parts on ebay :O

I already have a new Edelbrock 1411 if the rebuild will fail.

 

[detmatt]

I'm sure what these guys are saying is true about these Hollys but I guess if I were in your shoes and had the carb apart and all the parts to rebuild it, I'd give it a shot. I can be a glutten for punishment sometimes though...

 

[tallhair]

I'm sure what these guys are saying is true about these Hollys but I guess if I were in your shoes and had the carb apart and all the parts to rebuild it, I'd give it a shot. I can be a glutten for punishment sometimes though...

I concur however I agree with Steve, Carters's away easier to successfully rebuild than Holley's but try it .. what have you got to lose?

 

[vdk2010]

I'm sure what these guys are saying is true about these Hollys but I guess if I were in your shoes and had the carb apart and all the parts to rebuild it, I'd give it a shot. I can be a glutten for punishment sometimes though...

Indeed! The question is, how can I find out if the carb is screwed up after the rebuild?! Are there indicators to see this? As I said, all parts move freely when I took it apart!

 

[tallhair]

Put in on the car and see how it operates. If it's not leaking fuel and idles and goes it's good.

All parts moving freely and no visible damage are a good sign

 

[vdk2010]

Ya, I will try that! All I can loose are the rebuild parts if I fail. But I have a little hope I can sell the Edelbrock carb because I have a short budget ;)

 

[vdk2010]

I was happy to find my washer tank unharmed after all the stories about troubles with finding new ones... But after I took it out, I saw it's not good anymore... I barely touched it and it got a lot of hair cracks
Are there ways to protect and "renew" old plastic?

 

[vdk2010]

 

[Stormer]

True mad-man. That's a handful you have there.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Put a straight edge across the metering block from corner to corner, X may have to use a feeler guage under to see if warped you can sand it on dead flat surface don't worry about losing the fine rib on metering block cause if its warped that rib is useless, thats where they leak allowing fuel to drip in as car is idleing you can somtimes look in and see it dripping. Also set float a hair higher (fuel level lower) than the guage in kit, seems to work better with todays fuel and those holleys are sensitive. Just some thoughts.

 

[commando1]

Vodka, once you have this thing apart into 2,467,511 pieces, what are you going to do.
This exuberance is starting to worry me.

 

[vdk2010]

Put a straight edge across the metering block from corner to corner, X may have to use a feeler guage under to see if warped you can sand it on dead flat surface don't worry about losing the fine rib on metering block cause if its warped that rib is useless, thats where they leak allowing fuel to drip in as car is idleing you can somtimes look in and see it dripping. Also set float a hair higher (fuel level lower) than the guage in kit, seems to work better with todays fuel and those holleys are sensitive. Just some thoughts.

I will do the measurements when I take the parts out of the vinegar! The rest will follow when I put all back together.

 

[detmatt]

If I could write you a prescription it would read like this,
Ritalyn, 20 MG, 3 times a day.

 

[vdk2010]

Vodka, once you have this thing apart into 2,467,511 pieces, what are you going to do.
This exuberance is starting to worry me.

ya, I decided to do a multiple step restauration...

The condition seen in person scares me too, because every single fu***ng piece of the car have dirt, spider nests, rodent legacies and rust on them... So I have to take everything apart, clean, derust, paint, ... all important parts, repair the wire harnesses, refresh parts as good as I can within my possibilities and then put all back together. It doesn't have to be perfect on first round, but it should be safe and working. And parts should not get worse.

In Later steps I'm going to start to make things more "perfect"...

That's the plan for now...

 

[vdk2010]

If I could write you a prescription it would read like this,
Ritalyn, 20 MG, 3 times a day.

I have enought energie, I don't need that. This projekt doesn't have to be done in a short amount of time...

The journey is the destination.

 

[detmatt]

I'm not saying you need the energy boost, you may have the market cornered on that, it's the focus.

 

[commando1]

I'm not saying you need the energy boost, you may have the market cornered on that, it's the focus.

Yes. That is what I'm worried about. The way you're doing this should take you years to get back on the road.
Plus a gazillion dollars plus or minus.
It would break my heart to see in post #10,501 in this thread that this journey is kicking the crap out of you and you're left with 2,467,509 pieces to get back together.