67 Fury 440 Engine Problems

[FURYGT]

if all they have is the gauge as an indicator, then they need to do a bit better. what's shown looks hot and should be confirmed.

by their post, misfire does not occur at temp A, but does occur at temp B. putting numbers to this might help.
restarts okay, but misfires?
got it. like tearing an engine down for a stalling issue without being able to affirm that the accelerator pump is strong.

The temperature has been tested with a laser heat sensing gun at various places and once warmed up the temps per the heat gun at the thermostat and heads are in the 170 - 180 degree range.

I think that there are/have been 2 problems. Too little clearance with the piston ring to cylinder wall clearance, which the honing should have fixed and second, some type of fuel or spark issue and I would bet that the 2 Mopar Performance Distributers used are junk and that another distributor that is not a MP brand will fix the problem.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

2 Mopar Performance Distributers used are junk and that another distributor that is not a MP brand will

OE Chrysler use a good used one and clean and lube. Or just call /contact Halifax shops for a reman.
This is why if you want a conversion kit you need to look for one from the 90s and earlier. Original Chrysler style that are bulletproof.

 

[SportFury70]

restarts okay, but misfires?

Yes sir, we shut it off then started it right back after we shut it off 3 times and it turned over and started up with minimal issue

 

[SportFury70]

We are going to try a distributor that a friend bought and is having shipped to our house, put that in and see if that fixes it. Which IMO do not think will work and have my doubts but you never know, the thing after that we will be checking is the tight valve guide clearance as I hear it is a problem with 440 source heads.

 

[Big_John]

Yes sir, we shut it off then started it right back after we shut it off 3 times and it turned over and started up with minimal issue

So, when it was restarted, was the electric pump used as part of the restarting procedure?

 

[rags]

if this works, it'd be just what you need. Rotunda Automotive Scope vintage - auto parts - by owner - vehicle... price is right too.

 

[SportFury70]

So, when it was restarted, was the electric pump used as part of the restarting procedure?

No it was not

 

[SportFury70]

Hi Everyone,

I got a little update on the '67 Fury stroker 440 project. This evening we put in another distributor, this one a built to spec 440 Commando and not a performance one. It did help a bit, as it has a less advanced curve than the Mopar Performance one that was on the car. We also took the timing with a timing gun before and after we swapped the distributors before starting the car and letting it run, which was the same both times. About 10 degrees. It ran a little better with the new distributor, seemed like a little longer also. We let it run about 15-20 minutes after swapping distributors and got it to operating temperature, put it in gear, and it did die but it also did start back up right after with no issues. Otherwise that was mainly all we did for the evening with it. Unless someone has any other opinions, at this point we are suspecting tight valve guides and we will check them next time we work on the car. The first 2 pictures are of the "old" distributor, 3rd picture is the new distributor in the box before we put it in.

 

[65Fury440]

Any idea what the fuel pressure is?
Why would you think the guides are too tight?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

How much cam is in this car? If it is not a near stock cam or I guess somewhat over stock hidden by the 500cid how do you expect it to idle in gear at 10 degrees BTDC. Hell my old stock 383hp liked 12-14 initial and it was a lot less bore and stroke. My current low compression 400 with a too big cam is set at 24-25 degrees BTDC just to get some drivability out of <3000 rpm.
If you have anything resembling a good stout cam in there there is no way 10 degrees initial timing is going to work properly. This is kind of why I asked for vacuum guage readings, and maybe some compression readings, but I guess we are asking too much. So we will watch the made up problems.

 

[rags]

at this point we are suspecting tight valve guides

This is kind of why I asked for vacuum guage readings

valve train issues would be discernible with a vacuum gauge, correct? thanks for the updates.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

valve train issues would be discernible with a vacuum gauge, correct? thanks for the updates.

Yes, but I'm sure you know that. Compression test hot and cold would tell a lot about the theory of tight guides holding valve motion up.
Pictures of distributors do no good. A picture or video of a vacuum guage on the engine running would speak volumes.

 

[rags]

Yes, but I'm sure you know that.

actually haven't practiced with a vacuum gauge in years. better the word of someone with more recent or extensive experience.

Pictures of distributors do no good.

swapping known good ignition components from a good running engine/vehicle would.

Compression test hot and cold

agree. something changes with the temperature transition. what?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

swapping known good ignition components from a good running engine/vehicle would

Yes, but I know what a distributor good or bad looks like. What I don't know is the vacuum reading at idle at the 10 degrees, or what it is a 15 degrees, or at 20 degrees. Then some educated guesses of where to go next or if it rattles real bad at 3000 rpm with the initial set on 20 andt is higher vacuum then we will know that the curve needs shortened.
If the valve guides are too tight and interfering with valve operation and hanging them off the seat at temp then the compression would be lower at temp. Causing the no/hard start when warm, that's a big if, especially with aluminum heads. Aluminum and bronze expand more than steel or stainless steel, however the exhaust valve is exposed more than the port to heat with no cooling. Still a big if and should be evident in the overall running of the engine all the time (poorly). This again points back to Vacuum readings tell you what is happening, what it likes, what it does not like.

 

[65Fury440]

Or it might not be getting any fuel.....
Such a nice car, should be out ripping up the roads.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Or it might not be getting any fuel.....
Such a nice car, should be out ripping up the roads.

He has 2 damn pumps and I believe all fuel goes through the manual pump which should pretty much self regulate fuel pressure unless it has some truck tire type diaphragm in it. If it is starving for fuel at.idle the problem is not in the pumps. As mentioned 2 pages back fuel pressure would not hurt to know for sure. Of course the only number values you can get are how many parts they have tried, how many problems they have made up in thier head. I did get a timing degree number which I would have to assume is BTDC and if that's right starts to explain some issues.

 

[65Fury440]

True, I am trying not to shotgun all things it could be, it seems to just make everything more complicated. Maybe the mechanical is not pulling through the electric, maybe the fuel pump pushrod is too short, they weren't using the electric to restart,there are a lot of maybes......
My initial timing is 20 degrees BTDC on my 520 with a 260/266 cam, so you aren't wrong there.
Y

 

[FURYGT]

How much cam is in this car? If it is not a near stock cam or I guess somewhat over stock hidden by the 500cid how do you expect it to idle in gear at 10 degrees BTDC. Hell my old stock 383hp liked 12-14 initial and it was a lot less bore and stroke. My current low compression 400 with a too big cam is set at 24-25 degrees BTDC just to get some drivability out of <3000 rpm.
If you have anything resembling a good stout cam in there there is no way 10 degrees initial timing is going to work properly. This is kind of why I asked for vacuum guage readings, and maybe some compression readings, but I guess we are asking too much. So we will watch the made up problems.

The 520" wedge in question certainally does not have a stock cam. The same engine builder that built my stock appearing pump gas 520" built the 520" that is having issues. The difference between mine and the problem engine is that the problem engine has aluminum heads, a slightly higher C/R and a custom cam grind built for the engine based on how the heads flowed after porting and based on the engine running headers and being in a somewhat heavy car. Don't ask for cam specs because the engine builder deamed them to be proprietory and he has since passed away. I wish I could recall my timing specs. I believe we ditched the vacum advance on my 520".

 

[70bigblockdodge]

True, I am trying not to shotgun all things it could be, it seems to just make everything more complicated. Maybe the mechanical is not pulling through the electric, maybe the fuel pump pushrod is too short, they weren't using the electric to restart,there are a lot of maybes......
My initial timing is 20 degrees BTDC on my 520 with a 260/266 cam, so you aren't wrong there.
Y

I'm having trouble staying with this, hoping that every time I see it pop up in "new post" that I will open it and see some numbers/values, hell I would even be happy with air pressure in the tires, at least that would be something besides a picture of parts that are/were on the engine. I mean I'm all for helping the kid out, but it's like no one is reading the post we are putting up. It's like you ask about fuel pressure and 2 pages later we get a picture and a statement that "the brake lights work fine, that's not the problem".
I think we are also being red headed step childed by Moparts. God knows you'll get a clear concise answer over there.

 

[65Fury440]

I like Stan's idea of assigning a tech helper to people in threads like this.
One knowledgeable person can walk a poster through the proper steps.
A lot of the posts seeking help get people that like to hear themselves talk, and that's cool, that's what a forum is for.
You just get people listing every possible thing under the sun it could be, leaving a more confused OP.
Personally, I'm pulling my hair out watching this play out.
I don't hold a candle to most of the guys here, but dammit, I can test stuff.
I sure hope this young man can get his step dad to listen to reason, and quit taking apart/throwing parts at this thing.