67 New Yorker intermittent starting issue

[Patrick]

So my 67 New Yorker doesn't start sometimes. Most of the time it will. When it doesn't start I hear a clicking noise at the left side of the firewall. Sometimes it will turn over for a second and then stop. If I leave it for a few hours it usually seems happy again. Battery is good, jump start doesn't make a difference, same in neutral and park. Could it be a bad starter relay? Or transmission lockout? Any other ideas?

 

[live4theking]

I had a similar issue with my 68 NYer. Are the any other symptoms when it will not start, such as no power to the inside of the car... ie no done light.

Have you taken the bulk head connector apart to inspect it for corrosion or signs of heat damage. It would be good preventative medicine to put some Deoxit out looks good.

I'll wait till you respond to say more.

 

[JC68vert300]

New battery cables solved my intermittent start issues. 50 years old and brittle.

 

[Turboomni]

 

[fury fan]

So my 67 New Yorker doesn't start sometimes. Most of the time it will. When it doesn't start I hear a clicking noise at the left side of the firewall.

Is typical for a starter relay to click when the battery is too weak to start the car, as the heavy current draw thru the solenoid to the starter causes the battery voltage to drop below the required voltage for the electromagnet in the relay. Relay snaps open, current to starter stops and battery voltage recovers quickly, causing the relay to connect again, repeating everything. Happens very quickly and causes rapid relay clicking.

Sometimes it will turn over for a second and then stop. If I leave it for a few hours it usually seems happy again.

This suggests environmental conditions might be at work? Cold engine, warm engine, ???

Battery is good, jump start doesn't make a difference, same in neutral and park. Could it be a bad starter relay? Or transmission lockout? Any other ideas?

If it was the neutral safety switch, you'd get only your dashboard idiot lights but zero response from the starter motor, as the NS switch breaks the circuit to the electromagnet in the starter relay. And you should be able to start it in neutral in that case anyway.

How have you determined the battery is good? I've seen weak batteries get passed by those modern computerized battery checkers at a parts store. (but yes, a jumpstart would seem to help)

Due to being intermittent, and without electrical diagnostic data of various things at the time the car won't start, here's what I would suspect:
excessive voltage drop thru ignition switch/circuit, causing the starter relay to flutter
starter motor that has a tight spot, that the battery can't overcome and drops down below the starter relay voltage dropout point
a battery that is borderline OK when the other problem doesn't arise, but can't overcome the other condition

 

[Davea Lux]

Might also want to check the fusible link, they sometimes get a break in them as they age. Try bypassing the link with a jumper from the positive battery cable to the large terminal on the starter relay the next time the car won't start. If this method works, and the car then starts, there is a problem with your link cable.

Dave

 

[Patrick]

Thanks guys, I'll try to answer all the questions below:

I had a similar issue with my 68 NYer. Are the any other symptoms when it will not start, such as no power to the inside of the car... ie no done light.

Have you taken the bulk head connector apart to inspect it for corrosion or signs of heat damage. It would be good preventative medicine to put some Deoxit out looks good.

I'll wait till you respond to say more.

Yes, there is power in the car when this happens. I haven't checked the bulkhead connector and I'll have to look up where that is but I will add it to the list.

Is typical for a starter relay to click when the battery is too weak to start the car, as the heavy current draw thru the solenoid to the starter causes the battery voltage to drop below the required voltage for the electromagnet in the relay. Relay snaps open, current to starter stops and battery voltage recovers quickly, causing the relay to connect again, repeating everything. Happens very quickly and causes rapid relay clicking.

The clicking is just one click at that position, no rapid clicking like you describe. I have heard that in other cars so I don't think that is happening here.

Cold engine, warm engine, ???

Always cold. Always.

starter motor that has a tight spot, that the battery can't overcome and drops down below the starter relay voltage dropout point

I did push it and have my wife pop it from neutral to drive but I don't know if that would be enough to move the engine. Still, it did suddenly decide to turn for a second while I was trying the key before it went back to being dead so I don't think that would be the issue.

Might also want to check the fusible link, they sometimes get a break in them as they age. Try bypassing the link with a jumper from the positive battery cable to the large terminal on the starter relay the next time the car won't start. If this method works, and the car then starts, there is a problem with your link cable.

Dave

Yeah, I think that is next. I'll have to find where the fusible link is and replace it if that works.

Any more ideas or questions are most welcome.

 

[fury fan]

Pushing a post-65 car won't engage the engine at all. The 65-older transmissions have a oil pump in the rear that allows push-starting, but not newer ones.

Next time this happens, jump the starter relay with a screwdriver and see if it starts. That will tell if a bad starter (problem persists), or if it spins up right away the problem is electrical activation of the relay.


When you start to release the ign key from 'start' back to 'run' does it seem to want to start for a 1/2-second?

 

[65sporty]

Do you have a test light? You will need a helper, put the test light clip on the battery neg and when it wont start have your helper hold the key over in the crank position and probe the terminal going to the starter and look for a light.
The terminal in the blue

If you have power here, head down to the starter and check for power. Red power from battery, blue is from the starter relay when the key is in the start position.

If you don't have power coming out of the relay and it clicks it is bad
If you have power out of the relay and power at the starter but it wont crank, change the starter.

 

[Patrick]

Pushing a post-65 car won't engage the engine at all. The 65-older transmissions have a oil pump in the rear that allows push-starting, but not newer ones.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

When you start to release the ign key from 'start' back to 'run' does it seem to want to start for a 1/2-second?

No, nothing, just click and thanks for coming.

 

[Patrick]

Do you have a test light?

Yes, yes I do

You will need a helper, put the test light clip on the battery neg and when it wont start have your helper hold the key over in the crank position and probe the terminal going to the starter and look for a light.

My wife will love that. With luck the car will lurch forward and she'll get my life insirance!

The terminal in the blue
View attachment 230753
If you have power here, head down to the starter and check for power. Red power from battery, blue is from the starter relay when the key is in the start position.
View attachment 230776

If you don't have power coming out of the relay and it clicks it is bad
If you have power out of the relay and power at the starter but it wont crank, change the starter.

Thanks, I appreciate the effort you put in to help me like that. I'll try to get to it this week and let you know the results.

 

[65sporty]

@saylor always says try not to die. So best of luck with it, come back with more questions, the solution and try not to die. Lol

 

[Patrick]

So here's the update. Yes, the starter turns when bridged with a screwdriver. The clicking noise I hear sounds like it is coming from what I think is the voltage regulator, part # 2098300. I can't see where the starter relay is, so I assume it is buried further down. Any further ideas? I am not at all against swapping parts.

 

[Davea Lux]

It would be normal to get a click out of the regulator when the key is turned on, it should not repeatedly click or buzz. Trace your fusible link back to the firewall, it should be hooked to the starter relay, most of them were mounted close to the driver side hood hinge and close to the firewall electrical plug. Some are also mounted on the fenderwell.

Dave

 

[live4theking]

The picture you posted has the voltage regulator in it. There is a picture of my 68. The voltage regulator is on the right side edge half way down . The bulkhead connector is directly below it with all of the wires going through it. A small common screwdriver with about a 4" shaft will help you to unclip the connectors to get it apart. The fusible link that others are telling you to check is a wire with a rubber or plastic tag built into it that goes into the bulkhead connector. See the little yellow rectangle that looks to be sitting on the inner fender.

Here is a picture of the bulkhead connector taken apart. the arrow points to the fusible link. Blue wire with the yellow tag. I would think yours should be the same, but it could be different.

Another shot of the bulkhead connector. Taken apart.

Here is a picture of the bulkhead connector taken apart. the arrow points to the fusible link. Blue wire with the yellow tag. I would think yours should be the same, but it could be different.

Another shot of the bulkhead connector. Taken apart.

Another shot of the bulkhead connector. Taken apart.

I don't have a picture of the starter relay, but it is mounted on the driver side inner fender just inches from the battery. There is a lead from the positive side of the battery that goes to it.

I hope this helps.

 

[fury fan]

Another option - if you look at RockAuto, they have pics of lots of parts, and the pics are usually accurate (at least on older Mopar stuff).
Look up the starter relay for a picture.

 

[live4theking]

Here is a picture that shows the starter relay and its location.

 

[Patrick]

Thanks for all the help guys. I have worked it all back to the relay and the problem is the ignition is not sending electricity to the relay (thanks for the diagram 65Sporty). Now a couple more questions. Is the fusible link between the ignition switch and the relay? I was able to start the car by jumpering a hot lead to the relay on the post where the ignition wire comes in so if the fusible link is not in that circuit then the problem must be the ignition switch.

 

[65sporty]

Should be a yellow wire from the ignition switch. It puts power on the relay in the crank position. Brown wire is ground through the neutral safety switch, the other brown wire goes to the starter. When the key is in the crank position if you don't have power check the bulkhead connector on the firewall. If it's good head for the Ignition switch and check if it's putting out power on the yellow wire in the crank position.

Here's the diagrams.

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1967/67ChryslerA.JPG

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1967/67ChryslerB.JPG