For Sale 70 Monaco 500 FK5

[polara71]

I have been quietly watching this thread for awhile now and I am going to put my five cents in. The car in question, in pieces with all the NOS parts was worth far more than $3500, and this is coming from me who has no love for Dodge Polaras/Monacos. The owner supposedly paid double for it and was taking a loss. I don't know and it doesn't matter, he wanted a quick sale to move on and no one in the two weeks it was for sale put up their hand at the price advertised. Which of course tells me no one at all thought the car had any real value, after all, $3500K for any classic in that condition is pretty damned cheap, especially a 440 car, coupe with buckets, console and very little rust.
I can't blame the guy for parting it, he had a personal time frame he was working to, no one bought it, it got parted. Big deal, honestly no one cared enough to step up.
I care about the cars I have a passion for but I also know many get parted for other projects and parts live on it others, fact of life.
All that aside, what really disappoints me is the polarization of people over this thread, so a couple of us are prepared to entertain anothers point of view even if we disagree with it, namely the seller. Then there are those that seem to have actual animosity toward him, why? Cos he didn't do it on a time frame that suits others? He didn't offer it in a place others found it agreeable to be in? It was his car, he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it. Hey Hollywood buys old cars up in good condition and smashes them up in movie scenes all the time. I don't ever hear anyone complain about that.
I see cars come and go all the time because I wasn't cashed up, or ready to buy or simply didn't hear about it until it was too late.Then I hear it has lost its engine or is parted etc. Even then I don't complain, but so many here are bitching about its loss when they had no intention of buying it anyway.
The seller didn't do anything wrong as far as I can see, I may dislike what he did but he didn't commit a crime, no one was defrauded, no one ended up hurt. So a nice car got lost, it's not the first and sure as hell won't be the last. I gave up long ago watching good cars get scrapped and getting upset about it. It's not worth getting all worked up over in all honesty, life is more important.

You bring up good points and valid discussion thoughts. Let me point out that I always maintain a freedom to express and since I can, I am going to express those thoughts and feelings . Since the seller destroyed a rare and desirable car of which many are passionate for, with little to no effort to sell and cried no interest in this now extra rusty carcass . I simply can have no compassion . I have to slam the guy since it was bought to flip and he got over his head .

Most of this thread was fueled by someone defending the seller as a good honest hard working guy , which really had nothing to do with anything.

I laid out a list of six or seven questions about half a thread ago to the defender and Im not certain any of those had been answered .

I have also been slandered by the defender which to me has lost all credibility .


This thread brought out true colors in some and strengthened my opinion of others .

 

[Fury Pursuit]

I have been quietly watching this thread for awhile now and I am going to put my five cents in. The car in question, in pieces with all the NOS parts was worth far more than $3500, and this is coming from me who has no love for Dodge Polaras/Monacos. The owner supposedly paid double for it and was taking a loss. I don't know and it doesn't matter, he wanted a quick sale to move on and no one in the two weeks it was for sale put up their hand at the price advertised. Which of course tells me no one at all thought the car had any real value, after all, $3500K for any classic in that condition is pretty damned cheap, especially a 440 car, coupe with buckets, console and very little rust.
I can't blame the guy for parting it, he had a personal time frame he was working to, no one bought it, it got parted. Big deal, honestly no one cared enough to step up.
I care about the cars I have a passion for but I also know many get parted for other projects and parts live on it others, fact of life.
All that aside, what really disappoints me is the polarization of people over this thread, so a couple of us are prepared to entertain anothers point of view even if we disagree with it, namely the seller. Then there are those that seem to have actual animosity toward him, why? Cos he didn't do it on a time frame that suits others? He didn't offer it in a place others found it agreeable to be in? It was his car, he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it. Hey Hollywood buys old cars up in good condition and smashes them up in movie scenes all the time. I don't ever hear anyone complain about that.
I see cars come and go all the time because I wasn't cashed up, or ready to buy or simply didn't hear about it until it was too late.Then I hear it has lost its engine or is parted etc. Even then I don't complain, but so many here are bitching about its loss when they had no intention of buying it anyway.
The seller didn't do anything wrong as far as I can see, I may dislike what he did but he didn't commit a crime, no one was defrauded, no one ended up hurt. So a nice car got lost, it's not the first and sure as hell won't be the last. I gave up long ago watching good cars get scrapped and getting upset about it. It's not worth getting all worked up over in all honesty, life is more important.

+ 1

 

[saforwardlook]

I have been quietly watching this thread for awhile now and I am going to put my five cents in. The car in question, in pieces with all the NOS parts was worth far more than $3500, and this is coming from me who has no love for Dodge Polaras/Monacos. The owner supposedly paid double for it and was taking a loss. I don't know and it doesn't matter, he wanted a quick sale to move on and no one in the two weeks it was for sale put up their hand at the price advertised. Which of course tells me no one at all thought the car had any real value, after all, $3500K for any classic in that condition is pretty damned cheap, especially a 440 car, coupe with buckets, console and very little rust.
I can't blame the guy for parting it, he had a personal time frame he was working to, no one bought it, it got parted. Big deal, honestly no one cared enough to step up.
I care about the cars I have a passion for but I also know many get parted for other projects and parts live on it others, fact of life.
All that aside, what really disappoints me is the polarization of people over this thread, so a couple of us are prepared to entertain anothers point of view even if we disagree with it, namely the seller. Then there are those that seem to have actual animosity toward him, why? Cos he didn't do it on a time frame that suits others? He didn't offer it in a place others found it agreeable to be in? It was his car, he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it. Hey Hollywood buys old cars up in good condition and smashes them up in movie scenes all the time. I don't ever hear anyone complain about that.
I see cars come and go all the time because I wasn't cashed up, or ready to buy or simply didn't hear about it until it was too late.Then I hear it has lost its engine or is parted etc. Even then I don't complain, but so many here are bitching about its loss when they had no intention of buying it anyway.
The seller didn't do anything wrong as far as I can see, I may dislike what he did but he didn't commit a crime, no one was defrauded, no one ended up hurt. So a nice car got lost, it's not the first and sure as hell won't be the last. I gave up long ago watching good cars get scrapped and getting upset about it. It's not worth getting all worked up over in all honesty, life is more important.

You bring up a good point or perhaps in my view a nuance in this matter. I didn't make it clear enough, I guess, as I thought I was, but I will say it again. I was never defending his actions or decisions, but I acknowledge that it would be correct to say that I was defending his character. Nothing he said to me did I find fault with, he doesn't cheat anyone from what I could tell and the evidence of customers over 30 years that still utilize him says a lot about that. And he took a big loss financially in his actions, and made the car as attractive to buy despite his mistakes. He wasn't just trying to flip it, as he spent a week of effort to take it down to a rolling shell to do the body work and paint it correctly. Flippers don't invest much of anything in their actions. He didn't just dump it.

The number one thing I really don't like about this site, and is a big change over the years, is to trash someone at the drop of a hat that you really don't know much about or have lived in his shoes. It is arrogant, smug, and destructive and shows very poor judgment in my view.

Wolfen summed things up very effectively from my point of view, and I appreciate his input.

I come from a very different background than a lot of you apparently - many years spent in college and 42 years in professional life. Frankly, the bahaviors I am witnessing on this site increasingly over the years is not reflective of those that built this country into what it is now. I have never really had to deal with it before. No one in professional life could ever be successful if their attitudes and loose cannon mouths that seem to be growing on this site were a part of their character. They would have been complete failures. And they would have lost their jobs very quickly. The reason they would lose their jobs is that they would undermine the integrity of any organization and the ability to work as a team would be destroyed, meaning the organization itself would ultimately fail. People that would attack someone's character on little evidence or basis were viewed simply as poison.

We here on this site have a very limited membership on the grand scale, and given the increasing difficulties in restoring these vehicles given all the realities we are now facing, you would think it would be important to stick together and support one another. You can still be critical but without all the arrogance and character assassination that tears a group apart.

If you really love C bodies like I do, it seems really dumb to act in ways that destroy websites and cause members to be so turned off that they don't want to participate anymore. How does that help? "My way or the highway" is another attitude that destroys too. If people can't talk to one another without being attacked, how is that helpful? Like I said, I am not used to this kind of behavior because it destroys participation. I came to this site to enjoy our shared interests, and now it is a daily attack of someone - with people taking sides, not listening to each other, and ganging up on members. We can be better than this. We need to be better than this. Or this site will eventually become like all the other Mopar websites that have gone by the wayside and are not really functional anymore. Then you will be pretty much on your own. And that isn't much fun.

 

[Fratzog]

I can't blame the guy for parting it,

I do. A couple weeks is not a reasonable amount of time to sell the car. You are correct he had every "right" to do what he did with his property. However with every right comes responsibility which means making a decent effort to sell the car. In any case property ownership doesn't make you immune from criticism particularly when you relinquish that responsibility.

 

[detmatt]

My beef isn’t really with any of you guys, it’s the idiot that destroyed this particular car and the way in which he did it. You made your bed now lay in it. Put on your big boy pants and take some responsibility and show some respect to the car and what it stands for.
Well said Fred, we were thinking the same thoughts at the same time.

 

[polara71]

I do. A couple weeks is not a reasonable amount of time to sell the car. You are correct he had every "right" to do what he did with his property. However with every right comes responsibility which means making a decent effort to sell the car. In any case property ownership doesn't make you immune from criticism particularly when you relinquish that responsibility.

My beef isn’t really with any of you guys, it’s the idiot that destroyed this particular car and the way in which he did it. You made your bed now lay in it. Put on your big boy pants and take some responsibility and show some respect to the car and what it stands for.
Well said Fred, we were thinking the same thoughts at the same time.

....

 

[saforwardlook]

I do. A couple weeks is not a reasonable amount of time to sell the car. You are correct he had every "right" to do what he did with his property. However with every right comes responsibility which means making a decent effort to sell the car. In any case property ownership doesn't make you immune from criticism particularly when you relinquish that responsibility.

My beef isn’t really with any of you guys, it’s the idiot that destroyed this particular car and the way in which he did it. You made your bed now lay in it. Put on your big boy pants and take some responsibility and show some respect to the car and what it stands for.
Well said Fred, we were thinking the same thoughts at the same time.

Help me understand, as I first saw a post about this car on Nov. 11 from Chris.

For Sale - 1970 Monaco

And when I went to buy some of the NOS parts, the car and original parts were still available pretty much as described. That was on December 7th. Where does the 2 weeks come from? And on December 7th he told me he had only one call. By then the car was well known to most of the faithful it would seem to me since it also appeared on this site as noted, I would have to conclude it was made available as long as he could afford to do so. A month later. After a month and only one call, what should he conclude for such a rare and desirable car?

Can we move on now???

 

[detmatt]

2 weeks or a month in Nov/Dec, what’s the difference???

 

[saforwardlook]

2 weeks or a month in Nov/Dec, what’s the difference???

Matt, I don't think it is unreasonable to conclude that after a month of listing the item and it showing up on this site at the same time (and I don't know if when Chris saw it was the first day the guy posted the listing), and having only one inquiry in that period at all is all that bad. It sure wouldn't encourage me at least about its prospects.

 

[fury fan]

We're not here for people, we're here for cars, specifically these cars, ones that are at higher risk for destruction than the 'cool' cars.
If we can celebrate people while we're here (and we DO do that sometimes) then so much the better. I've seen some FINE people on this site.
And we try to support our brothers here with tech info, and sometimes wisdom from the wiser to the less wise.

But we are NOT required to support people that #1: are not members here, and #2: do not love these cars. This guy hits neither checkbox there.
If a jackass destroys a fabulous car like this one, well, don't expect people to care about his living conditions, or his character, or anything. You can fully expect us to care about, and criticize, his actions.

He could've been a flipper, and if he saved the car and sold it for $25k it would be a different discussion. We might grumble a bit, but we'd ultimately be thrilled that this one was put up on a pedestal for us to all admire. But it wasn't.

He's a failed flipper, and sounds like he's living hand-to-mouth, and probably has no business buying a Letter car either (except maybe a 300L).
He's got a mac-and-cheese budget and destroyed a very rare and desirable car so that he could buy a champagne car that he apparently can't afford either.

Should we expect a few more get-rich-quick cars to destroyed by him when the going gets a little tough???

 

[fury fan]

I come from a very different background than a lot of you apparently - many years spent in college and 42 years in professional life. Frankly, the bahaviors I am witnessing on this site increasingly over the years is not reflective of those that built this country into what it is now. I have never really had to deal with it before. No one in professional life could ever be successful if their attitudes and loose cannon mouths that seem to be growing on this site were a part of their character. They would have been complete failures. And they would have lost their jobs very quickly. The reason they would lose their jobs is that they would undermine the integrity of any organization and the ability to work as a team would be destroyed, meaning the organization itself would ultimately fail. People that would attack someone's character on little evidence or basis were viewed simply as poison.

I'm betting you have no idea what kind of background a lot of us come from. It is completely asinine to assume how we interact with real people IRL based on some narrow slice of what we type on the internet.

One might even say that, making generalizations of us based on such little evidence or basis, should be viewed simply as poison.

A really cool car was destroyed, by a guy who chose to destroy it solely for financial reasons, simply because he hit a hurdle (root cause). People are disgusted and he got hammered. This ain't the Hallmark Channel, and we're entitled to our opinions and emotions. Just keep clicking the Red X when you feel the need?

 

[saforwardlook]

Like I said earlier, this site is not what it used to be, as these kinds of rants and ridiculous rationale weren't the norm back then. A lot of it just isn't they way I will live my life. Nor something that I want to be a part of.

I guess I really don't belong here anymore, and I will never stoop to the angry challenges you guys above present to futher denigrate me.

So my participation in the site will be very limited in the future if at all. So then you can congratulate each other in expelling another solid member. Keep up the important work you do in killing off other people that disagree with you. I doubt it will all end well.

And I have made a lot of solid very good friends on this site whom I truly respect deeply. I truly wish all of you well. I am sure we can still keep in touch. You know who you are.

Take care.
Steve

 

[69monaco]

What a shame , and that all because an old car…….

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

2 weeks or a month in Nov/Dec, what’s the difference???

Matt what is it with Nov/dec?
What is the difference to apr/may or sep/oct?

If there is something up for sale I want I buy it. No matter what time of the year.

Carsten

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

We're not here for people, we're here for cars, specifically these cars, ones that are at higher risk for destruction than the 'cool' cars.
If we can celebrate people while we're here (and we DO do that sometimes) then so much the better. I've seen some FINE people on this site.
And we try to support our brothers here with tech info, and sometimes wisdom from the wiser to the less wise.

I agree with this part.
And wish it would also be valid and kept in mind for a lot od endless political threads. This board should be about cars.

But we are NOT required to support people that #1: are not members here, and #2: do not love these cars. This guy hits neither checkbox there.
If a jackass destroys a fabulous car like this one, well, don't expect people to care about his living conditions, or his character, or anything. You can fully expect us to care about, and criticize, his actions.

Formyself I support anyone who is into old Mopars. No matter in which message board, facebook group or club he is. If someone likes old Mopars: Great.
And I come along fine, too with B&E-Body guys who saw old Cs for a long time just as engine donors. Many of them learned that they have enthusiasts, too and got more respectful. But it works best if you communicate and talk with each other and not yell and atomise hate.

Being unhappy that this Moncao died: I totally agree.
Did the owner make poor and bad decisions: yes, absolutly
But I don't need to call someone names.

I just don't get where all the -at least felt by me- hate comes from.

Carsten

 

[detmatt]

Matt what is it with Nov/dec?
What is the difference to apr/may or sep/oct?

If there is something up for sale I want I buy it. No matter what time of the year.

Carsten

In all of my years experience in selling project cars and more years of selling parts the phone rings nowhere near as much in November, December as Christmas approaches & January, February & March as tax time approaches can be hard too.
How many threads have there been over the years about guys anxious to unload cars and quickly, no matter what time of year and we all chime in and tell them to be patient these things take time, it’s just the way it is. I’ve never seen this community so accepting of this behavior quite honestly and it’s disappointing at best. Gary this is not the same as some movie house buying up cars for a reason and following through with that reason.

 

[polara71]

Matt what is it with Nov/dec?
What is the difference to apr/may or sep/oct?

If there is something up for sale I want I buy it. No matter what time of the year.

Carsten

Carsten, YOU of all people know the difference. The time frames specified are best suited for people like you. The best deals can be had at these times as the market is more limited.
You know your financial situation and are in a much better position to buy cars on a whim at any time of year. Rather than the dead of winter and Christmas bills looming .

 

[polara71]

In all of my years experience in selling project cars and more years of selling parts the phone rings nowhere near as much in November, December as Christmas approaches & January, February & March as tax time approaches can be hard too.
How many threads have there been over the years about guys anxious to unload cars and quickly, no matter what time of year and we all chime in and tell them to be patient these things take time, it’s just the way it is. I’ve never seen this community so accepting of this behavior quite honestly and it’s disappointing at best. Gary this is not the same as some movie house buying up cars for a reason and following through with that reason.

Well said ...

 

[polara71]

I agree with this part.
And wish it would also be valid and kept in mind for a lot od endless political threads. This board should be about cars.



Formyself I support anyone who is into old Mopars. No matter in which message board, facebook group or club he is. If someone likes old Mopars: Great.
And I come along fine, too with B&E-Body guys who saw old Cs for a long time just as engine donors. Many of them learned that they have enthusiasts, too and got more respectful. But it works best if you communicate and talk with each other and not yell and atomise hate.

Being unhappy that this Moncao died: I totally agree.
Did the owner make poor and bad decisions: yes, absolutly
But I don't need to call someone names.

I just don't get where all the -at least felt by me- hate comes from.

Carsten

Carsten, re read through this thread, start to finish and see where the fuel of 11 pages came from. I found it very interesting that whoever supported the Monacos position the Defender took the same aggressive stance being very hypocritical of himself and what he proclaims the deplorables to be. As I write this looking back this has happened within many threads of many topics.
Im not requesting you to turn on an ally but rather consider the position of the opposing shoes .

 

[fury fan]

Formyself I support anyone who is into old Mopars. No matter in which message board, facebook group or club he is. If someone likes old Mopars: Great.

Yes, but what if that person is into E-bodies, and is a derby guy, and destroys *every* C-body he can get his hands on? Do you still support him on the internet? I would not, and I do not need to apologize for not supporting someone I don't know for doing something that 90% of us would be disgusted about. When someone joins this forum to be a part of us (not just to list a car and then disappear), there's acceptance and support. This 'pro' was not one of us, so he does not get that benefit.

And the flip side - what if one of us scrapped a 300F under the same circumstances to buy a C-body? Would we be so foolish as to assume that the Forward Look community wouldn't be a hornet's nest also? Should we expect them to think 'well, maybe he's a nice guy'?

As Polara71 said, much of the thread is from a pot rebuking people for being kettles. I got dragged in after I said 'hey, you're doing the very same thing you criticized me for' and he started on me all over again.