(Another) 383 2 bbl to 4 bbl conversion thread, anyone got a parts list?

[edbods]

Wanting to replace what I'm fairly certain is the stock 2 barrel carby on my 67 Phoenix's/Fury's 383, with a 4 barrel one, the 650 cfm AVS2 (#1906) to be specific. I've got a buddy that's happy to sell his old edelbrock performer intake, but is there a list of other small parts I'll need? Will the stock single snorkel air cleaner suffice? Anything regarding the throttle and kickdown linkages? Will I need the throttle lever adapter #1481?

I neglected to get a good pic of the carb or any identifying info, numbers etc. on it before we buttoned it back up, but if it helps, I do know that it's got a thermostatic choke on it and that it's mounted to the stock 383 2 barrel intake (has the chrysler logo cast on it). Appreciate any help on this.

 

[volksworld]

couple things to check...I have a Performer 440 and it's 5/8 inch taller than a stock manifold...so cable position is too low... the arm on 2bbl linkage is longer to get the cable end closer to the smaller 2bbl...so you should be able to bend it upwards to get something that will line up and work better than the actual 4bbl bracket...my Performer also happens to be a spread bore and required an adapter plate (#2732)to mount a Holley on it ...idk if an avs2 is available as a spread bore or if its a square bore carb...usually the throat is smaller on a 2bbl than a 4bbl and will require a different air cleaner ...the increased height of the manifold may cause issues between the air cleaner and hood insulation as well

 

[CBODY67]

Same bolt pattern for the "Holley" pattern (adopted by all for 1968 model year Chryslers) as the spreadbores. The spreadbores have the unique sizing for the secondary throttle plate sizes.\

You WILL also need an air cleaner with the 1968 Holley diameter air cleaner base hole. Which is the same as any other later Carter or Holley 4bbl. IF you can find an air cleaner base section with the big-enough center hole, you can then trim the outer section off and have an incognito open element air cleaner using your existing factory 2bbl/4bbl top.

The Edelbrock DP4B aluminum intake of 1968 came with a Chrysler part number cast into it, so it was legal in the stock classes for drag racing. Mounting plate height might be a bit different, but not enough to place the top of the air cleaner stud above the cowl level on the body. I have a Torker 383 on my '67 Newport with no issues. I suspect the Performer 383 intake is an version of that earlier intake, with some updates and tweaks.

Linkage? Main thing is that the throttle shaft of the primary side will be more forward on the engine than the 2bbl is. Might be able to loosen the throttle cable and reposition it a bit more forward in the holder, then gently tighten it down? Remove and use the existing throttle stud after getting the necessary Chrysler linkage adapter on the new AVS2.

The transmission rod will similarly need to be longer. Edelbrock lists such an extension in their catalog. Just screw it onto the existing rod and attach the front part of the rod (threaded end) onto it and adjust as normal. Before you do anything, check the current adjustment on the rod (turns preload, lengthening, from when the end of the slot just touches the throttle cable stud) at hot base idle. Adjust the lengthened rod like that. If the transmission shifts are too soon, add another turn of preload to get things back to where they used to be.

Edelbock and Holley both advocate for their square-bore adapter for the spread-bore manifold. I discovered that with the thick insulator OEM-style base gasket (rather than the thinner paper one that comes with the carburetor), that adapter is not needed. Find an insulator gasket (thicker and with the plastic bushings in the mounting stud holes) for a '70 383 4bbl (which was also a factory AVS) and you'll probably find that the rear areas have enough stiffness and size to reliably seal the rear of the carb to the intake manifold. I did that on a similar situation and it worked fine for over 500K miles. DO check this first, before buying the adapter kit, which will further add to the ultimate carb height on the engine! On my spread-bore intake, there was about 1/4 of excess gasket which covered the spread-bore secondary throttle contours.

You many need some additional wire to power the electric choke. You can incognito run that wire along side the wires going to the distributor on the rh valve cover, then to the cowl's other wiring toward the driver's side of things.

4 carb studs and nuts might come with the new carb. Those studs are very soft, so I like to replace them with the "black" studs from an auto supply, which are much harder. Put a bit of oil or anti-seize on the part that goes into the manifold.

You can re-use your existing valley pan gasket, if desired. Either way, get the 1969 440 6bbl paper gaskets, too, or a new valley pan which has them for your engine size. The paper was added to keep the metal valley pan beads from embedding into the softer aluminum of the one-year aluminum manifold on the 440 6bbl motors. Fel-Pro makes those paper additions AND might include them with their new valley pan gaskets for which ever engine size you have.

For a sealing upgrade . . . I take some black, high-heat sealer and put a skin coat on the paper gaskets and fill the bead on the valley pan gasket with it, too. Scraping it flat with a gasket scraper. Let it all cure for 24 hours and install. Has worked great for me. Might be over-kill, but so is a "higher degree of execution", many times, too.

1-Edelbrock Chrysler throttle cable adapter Edelbrock 1481
1-Edelbrock transmission rod extension, note diameter of your stock rod 5/16" rod Edelbrock 8004
1-Edelbrock thick carb base insulator gasket (with bushings) Edelbrock 9266
1-Air cleaner items mentioned above
1-Wire and quality terminals for electric choke connection
1-Black finish stud/nut kit (longer than supplied with carb and harder metal) Edelbrock 8056
// I had problems finding these items in the current online catalog, so went back to a 2019 catalog I had downloaded. Should be the same part numbers, I suspect. The noted car studs might be cheaper if sourced locally? //

Take care and enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

Wanting to replace what I'm fairly certain is the stock 2 barrel carby on my 67 Phoenix's/Fury's 383, with a 4 barrel one, the 650 cfm AVS2 (#1906) to be specific. I've got a buddy that's happy to sell his old edelbrock performer intake, but is there a list of other small parts I'll need? Will the stock single snorkel air cleaner suffice? Anything regarding the throttle and kickdown linkages? Will I need the throttle lever adapter #1481?

I neglected to get a good pic of the carb or any identifying info, numbers etc. on it before we buttoned it back up, but if it helps, I do know that it's got a thermostatic choke on it and that it's mounted to the stock 383 2 barrel intake (has the chrysler logo cast on it). Appreciate any help on this.

Since I did such an improvement nigh 2 yrs ago now, you can look at what I achieved, and I'll list a little essential hardware, God-willing, sparing you some expense and trouble. First, behold:

This was my very first iteration, with a Performer 1405, using the original 2bbl kickdown rod, throttle cable and a brand new Carter AVS fuel line obtained from Inline Tube. We had hired a wrench monkey to replace the heads at my wife's insistence, and with my final guidance, I got the engine and car running alright and out of his paws before he could wreck it. The only ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL Edelbrock hardware to get it hooked up and driveable was the 1481 throttle leaver. I'd bought their damned fuel line, and a number of other gew-gaws as advised in their
EDELBROCK PERFORMER SERIES CARBURETORS INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS, including the kickdown linkage rod extension, which I retain in pristine condition, but with the 2bbl rods, both the one for a 1966 engine and trans shown above, and the 1968 linkage which I replaced it with soon after, no extension proves necessary. Observe:

The more recent setup works more smoothly. I spent a few $ on Mopar OEM spec springs, the green throttle return and orange kickdown bellcrank spring, which I use with the 1968 2bbl Carter linkage,

and I put Edelbrock's 1/2" phenolic spacer between the carb and my venerable iron intake, which helps this carb quite a lot for the modest investment, but that almost ends my list of Edelbrock hardware to get this 1405 breathing well for this 383. I also got their 14" air filter and breather, along with an adapter to permit the breather to attach to the oil cap, thus properly circulating hydrocarbons from the drivers side head, while the PCV going into the front of the carb does the same for the passenger side head. While I have a nice 4 bbl T-quad breather from the mid-70s which I could use with this engine, I figured 'Brock's breather w their carb wouldn't be a bad idea.

I suspect if you use an Edelbrock intake, more of their hardware IS needed.

Mo Par 2 U!

 

[CBODY67]

The reason I put the throttle rod extension in my list is that when I did the upgrade to the Torker 383 and 9801TQuad, the stock 4bbl throttle rod only had about 2 threads of engagement with the slotted end of the stock 4bbl rods mechanism, so I got it for good insurance, and it worked well. I ended up filing the soft metal of the rear section a bit shorter, for good measure, though. Then I got another rear rod from the salvage yard. I still kept the extension in the mix when I put a Holley 4160 in place of the TQuad.

Good to see that there is enough slack in the 2bbl accel cable, too.

Take care,
CBODY67

 

[edbods]

Excellent info guys, thanks heaps. Will buy that tranny rod extension just in case. Don't suppose someone would be able to help me buy a remanned AVS2 and ship it to aus? There's a company with an ebay listing for rebuilt AVS2s but they don't ship worldwide unfortunately...I might get those extra bits and pieces for the conversion at the same time while I'm at it too.

 

[CBODY67]

Excellent info guys, thanks heaps. Will buy that tranny rod extension just in case. Don't suppose someone would be able to help me buy a remanned AVS2 and ship it to aus? There's a company with an ebay listing for rebuilt AVS2s but they don't ship worldwide unfortunately...I might get those extra bits and pieces for the conversion at the same time while I'm at it too.

I believe that Edelbrock sells refurbs on their website, usually for the same price as Summit Racing sells them. In some ways, if they go through and make sure their possible warranty returns are totally correct, that might be the best deal?

CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

The reason I put the throttle rod extension in my list is that when I did the upgrade to the Torker 383 and 9801TQuad, the stock 4bbl throttle rod only had about 2 threads of engagement with the slotted end of the stock 4bbl rods mechanism, so I got it for good insurance, and it worked well. I ended up filing the soft metal of the rear section a bit shorter, for good measure, though. Then I got another rear rod from the salvage yard. I still kept the extension in the mix when I put a Holley 4160 in place of the TQuad.

Good to see that there is enough slack in the 2bbl accel cable, too.

Take care,
CBODY67

You hit the nail on the head by qualifying the need for that extension with the Torker (and I suspect all other Edelbrock) intakes AND the stock 4bbl throttle rod. Yes, the damned extension metal struck me as straight machined aluminum, so it abides in my air/fuel parts drawer and envelope. Had I used a 4 bbl rod, I've been told by All and Sundry I would have needed some extension. I thought of using a good rod coupling and all thread combo early on actually. Notice how the 1966 rod is longer, and bent, while the '68 rod is straight? The Bendix carb had dual return springs from the front also. I actually have a 4 bbl bellcrank and rod w bracket, courtesy of Mancini and eBay. That setup didn't play nice with that old intake and the carb though. But the stock Carter BBD rod and crank stuff works beautifully. Goes to show how when we piece together mechanical solutions constrained some by age, but also expanded by the relative simplicity and robust designs of that time, we can arrive at multiple viable solutions!

There is plenty of slack in the 2 bbl accel cables. I think I lucked out in part by choosing an OLD 4 barrel intake, one used from about 1961-66. My reasoning ran: "OK, Edelbrock Performer AVS carbs are direct lineal children of Carter AVS carbs to start with. I'll use as much Old Mopar as I can, and see how it goes together...."
You KNOW how I adamantly prefer manual chokes too. I already had an Edelbrock manual choke cable which I had used for both the Stromberg and Carter BBD carbs which had preceded the nice 'Brock.

If I was able to devote full time to carb twiddling, I'd like to learn Holley's more, but with another Rug Monkey on the ground right now, I scarcely can get two hands free to even type, let alone wrench.

 

[CBODY67]

Look up the dyno test Nick did on a 440 and an early Chrysler RB 2x4bbl inline intake. Made much more power than suspected, to be a 1958 or so design. "Old Mopar" strikes again!

CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

Look up the dyno test Nick did on a 440 and an early Chrysler RB 2x4bbl inline intake. Made much more power than suspected, to be a 1958 or so design. "Old Mopar" strikes again!

CBODY67

Read that some yrs ago. Yes, you know well why I like the 1st generation machines. If ONLY they'd combined the canted angle valves of the polyspherical heads a bit more into the wedge designs, though, that would have meant more open quench high rpm emphasis. I like the low rpm curve closed quench designs, also more in use in the early B/RBs to get low end torque, though that 413 with the 1.88" exhaust valves and the Max Wedge both were hellacious good high-winders!

Thus my liking for those 915s! They allow lower exhaust back pressure than the 516, breathe better on intake and exhaust, but still thump hard on the power stroke, which was why they put them on those 440s 67-68.


Wouldn't it be grand to have some of those long tube dual quad intakes from ~1962! I just need to rob a bank or two or get that NSF grant to fund such a project.....

 

[CBODY67]

Nick had a 300J with the long-tube intake manifolds on the dyno too, but the manifold I was talking about was the inline 2x4bbl factory intake that came before that.

On the long tube intakes, after seeing the length of the individual runners on the exhaust side, obviously some "hidden" tuning there, too! They look archaic and had to have the exhaust heat to the intake plenums, but obviously some tuning affect there, too.

In looking at some of David Vizard's recent videos, the name "Darin Morgan" popped up. As being ANOTHER cylinder head "person of extreme knowledge". So I happened upon some videos he was in. Yep, he had the employment history and experiences and knowledge to be worthy of what others say about him. In a most positive way. All of his "work" has been in the top fuel dragster engine world, but some of that can also apply to normal engines, too. There were a few YTube live-streaming videos of over an hour each. LOTS of neat information.

In one video, there was mention of the Chrysler 440 being "under-valved", on the intake side. How the Hemi-head was not AND that all current top-fuel dragster heads were patterned after the Ford Cleveland 351 cyl heads. The vast advantage of canted valves, over normal angles, AND that many top fuel heads have only 1.60 exhaust valves.

Between Vizard, Lake Speed Jr., Uncle Tony, Nick, and now Darin Morgan . . . LOTS of inexpensive entertainment AND knowledge. Which had not aided me getting to sleep before 1am many mornings. A benefit of retirement and "doing things that make me smile".

Sorry for the diversion!
CBODY67

 

[edbods]

Between Vizard, Lake Speed Jr., Uncle Tony, Nick, and now Darin Morgan . . . LOTS of inexpensive entertainment AND knowledge

Welp, another 3 AM rabbit hole I'm gonna be stuck in for a while...

 

[Gerald Morris]

Nick had a 300J with the long-tube intake manifolds on the dyno too, but the manifold I was talking about was the inline 2x4bbl factory intake that came before that.

On the long tube intakes, after seeing the length of the individual runners on the exhaust side, obviously some "hidden" tuning there, too! They look archaic and had to have the exhaust heat to the intake plenums, but obviously some tuning affect there, too.

In looking at some of David Vizard's recent videos, the name "Darin Morgan" popped up. As being ANOTHER cylinder head "person of extreme knowledge". So I happened upon some videos he was in. Yep, he had the employment history and experiences and knowledge to be worthy of what others say about him. In a most positive way. All of his "work" has been in the top fuel dragster engine world, but some of that can also apply to normal engines, too. There were a few YTube live-streaming videos of over an hour each. LOTS of neat information.

In one video, there was mention of the Chrysler 440 being "under-valved", on the intake side. How the Hemi-head was not AND that all current top-fuel dragster heads were patterned after the Ford Cleveland 351 cyl heads. The vast advantage of canted valves, over normal angles, AND that many top fuel heads have only 1.60 exhaust valves.

Between Vizard, Lake Speed Jr., Uncle Tony, Nick, and now Darin Morgan . . . LOTS of inexpensive entertainment AND knowledge. Which had not aided me getting to sleep before 1am many mornings. A benefit of retirement and "doing things that make me smile".

Sorry for the diversion!
CBODY67

No diversion at all!

Yes, the Poly should have been the template for winding up the breathing on B/RBs, but alas, bean counters have PLENTY say-so in Motor City, even with genii like Vill Virtman and Carrol Shelby designing such righteous mills. Well, the Viper was their Retirement Piece....

I had 2 351 Cleveland powered Mustangs. My first when I was 17, and deserving a birching instead of such a fine machine! That one was a Lady's Mustang, the Grande, with the Cleveland running closed quench heads and a big 2 bbl Autolite carb. That one SMOKED plenty rubber on traffic light takeoffs, and stupid **** in parking lots. I survived 18 months of ruining that car and engine, and learned how to drive a dangerously powerful engine. Today, I thank my guardian angel(s) for this.

The second was a 1968 'Stang which a hot-rodder had dropped a Cleveland into. This one had Ford's fully valved, open quench heads and an Edelbrock Performer 1406 on it, with a Brock intake. I found a "baby" C-6 tranny to put behind this engine and a rear-end from a 1979 Lincoln Versailles, which bolted right on and gave me rear disc brakes. This beast topped out between 140-150 mph on the interstate, and would get airborne up front when so doing. Here are a few shots from the early 2000s. Ironically enough, I initially bought the car to get the motor for my 1962 Ranchero...

I got my first Mopar, a 1966 New Yorker, about a year after the bottom pic.