mikedrini
Well-Known Member
Ray @halifaxhops has sold me 2 distributors and I 100% stand by his work. He'll meet your specs, send you the build/test sheet, and they work exceptionally well. I had one built for my 440 and my 505 stroker.
Best Electronic Ignition for 383
- Thread starter furyfever
- Start date
When I got to investigating the CD box items from the middle 1960s, there were several variations in how much spark energy they built and how it was released. Then, in the early 1970s, most conversion kits did not mention the "retard" which seemed to be a part of those units . . . 1 degree per 1000rpms, usually. ONLY Accel mentioned that, back then.
On the CD units, they had one massive-energy ZAP per cyl, which was much more than the normal breaker points could ever do, even with a hot coil running things. While using the breaker point to switch the voltage on and off, then letting the CD unit multiply it on its way to the spark plugs. Hence, longer point life (provided the rubbing block was lubed to specs!!!).
Before I put the then-genuine Mopar Perf kit on my '67 Newport, I had installed a 440 6-bbl dual point distributor in the 383 (using the MP adapter spacer) for the longer dwell time and allegedly hotter spark. I could not seem to get a consistent point gap, so I got out my magnetic base dial indicator to "get things right". That's when I discovered the height variations on the cam lobes which the points were operated by! I had heard of "cam lobe wear", but never had really paid attention to it! Was I surprised at how much there was AND how much it varied from lobe to lobe, with the resultant variation in point gap and dwell readings/lobe. After that, the only choice for efficient ignition timing and output was a full-electronic ignition kit. An ADDED benefit of the electronic conversion kit was "zero distributor bearing wear" from no sideloads on the upper shaft by the pressure of the breaker point rubbing block on the lobes. Even at 70K+miles, the OEM distributor in our '72 Newport 400 (with the then-optional electronic ignition), spun freely and without any wobble.
So, to me, the benefit of any electronic ignition, not triggered by breaker points, is consistent spark timing and NO maintenance. Whether it is the old Mallory Uni-Lite (led switched) or some sort of "magnetic trigger" mechanism.
I fully know that breaker points served us well for ages and ages, but back then, too, EVERYBODY who changed ignition points knew what POINT GREASE was, hot to use it, AND to look for it with each set of new replacement sets of ignition points. Without that lube, the rubbing blocks and cam lobes wear prematurely. Wear on the rubbing block is fixed with a new set of points, but the wear on the cam lobes "is there".
Everybody has their own tolerances and orientations on these things. Proceed as desired.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Now . . . there is ONE benefit of a breaker points system which an electronic system can NOT touch! It has to do with the minimum voltage the control box (whichever one is being used) needs to fire a spark plug. Whereas if a breaker point system is used, as long as a spark happens at the breaker points, a spark happens at the spark plug. Which means that a very weak battery can still get the sparks to jump and start the engine. As long as the starter can turn the engine, there is a possibility the engine might reluctantly start, by observation. Whereas an electronic system would need jumper cables.
Some electronic boxes will not produce a spark although the engine turns fast enough to start the car, by observation. A set of jumper cables immediately helped that situation and the car quickly started. I saw that play out at a cruise night event, years ago. At that time, there was no in-depth diagnosis of what might be causing the situation. The control box on the car was the "Orange Box". Perhaps a better diagnosis happened the next day after they got back home? Don't know. FWIW
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Some electronic boxes will not produce a spark although the engine turns fast enough to start the car, by observation. A set of jumper cables immediately helped that situation and the car quickly started. I saw that play out at a cruise night event, years ago. At that time, there was no in-depth diagnosis of what might be causing the situation. The control box on the car was the "Orange Box". Perhaps a better diagnosis happened the next day after they got back home? Don't know. FWIW
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Gerald Morris
Senior Member
WISE WORDS AGAIN! Yes, lubricating that rubbing block and cam is CRUCIAL to LONG LIFE, as is not roasting the points with overcurrent. I had an issue w the latter recently, for while the cold resistance of my ballast resistor was about .7 ohms, it didn't warm up well, resulting in too little resistance/too much current to the points. I had a nice but noisy old Delco 500 coil, about 1.6 ohms, but went to a nicer Taylor, which at just .7 ohms, needed greater resistance.
Yes, I have had to replace several cams on my distributor collection, and thank the Lord I was able to find some nice new NOS cams, sans rust. I too see lobe variation on most of my dizzies, but have built 3 with new parts, and am treating these like the precious things they have become.
If I get too busy or tired to attend to this stuff properly, I will resort to a good Mopar electronic ignition. Your experience with dual points seems to be the Universal Tale.
I really shouldn't have such abundant adolescent energy in my 6th decade, but while I do, I thank the Lord for it! But this third rugmonkey is going to be a strain on the Great Resource, TIME!
I might play w a CD unit, if I cop one freebeez or such. I like the greater ZAP in the cylinder, and multiple ZAPS aggregated is where CD truly excels over Der Alte Herr Kettering, jahwohl!
Hoppy probably has an electronic package with a ribbon and name tag on it for me already, but I'm ignoring it for this summer anyway.....
Sixpactogo
Well-Known Member
I can't speak to the quality of any of the new distributors or modules since mine are all over 20 years old. I can speak to the poor quality of the installations though. Plenty of them right here on this site that didn't verify their grounds and were left stranded 10 miles from home long before the newer kits came out. Myself included. That is how I found out about the poor grounding issue.
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cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
The 318 Fury has Pertronix. Works well,but the advance comes in too early and limits my initial timing.
So a recurve is in order.
Both he BoaB and Grace have the Summit electronic kits.
The advanctage here is the distributors so have a really nice recurve already in them.
A bonus with today's corn fed gas pumps.
I integrated the wiring on the Newport,meanwhile Grace the Monaco is getting an Evan engine harness..
So a recurve is in order.
Both he BoaB and Grace have the Summit electronic kits.
The advanctage here is the distributors so have a really nice recurve already in them.
A bonus with today's corn fed gas pumps.
I integrated the wiring on the Newport,meanwhile Grace the Monaco is getting an Evan engine harness..
Which Pertronix kit are you using?
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
The basic Pertronix I.
Easy peasy to install, and very reliable.
Just make sure your connections are secure,LOL!
I had two Pertronixs fails in two years. Both were the small magnets had come loose after the clear tape that is used to secure them had started to break down. Both replaced with full Electronic ignition and engine wiring harness with electronic plug from Even's wiring.
Just FYI all of the timing comes out of the distributor Petronixs is just to trigger the coil to spark has nothing to do with the curve. Hope it helps. And yes all the petronixs I have installed are great upgrades and the fixed the clear tape issue they had.
AMC used GM distributors. (Ford electronics and starters, and after '71, Chrysler Torqueflights.) When we built the 401 for the Gremlin we bought a new points Distributor and installed a Pertronix ignition in it. I never liked it. Even found at one point it was coming apart inside the cap!
A few years ago DUI started offering HEI distributors for AMC. I bought one and installed it recently. WORLD OF DIFFERENCE! At this point I do not see that they are building them for Mopar, but if they did I would highly recommend!!
A few years ago DUI started offering HEI distributors for AMC. I bought one and installed it recently. WORLD OF DIFFERENCE! At this point I do not see that they are building them for Mopar, but if they did I would highly recommend!!
I unwittingly started a rather popular topic here. Glad you’re all joining in and having fun. question: I put a pertronix (probably a I) and flamethrower coil in my old 69 fury 318. I remember that engine running so smoothly. Always started right up…no matter if hot or cold…I can’t remember where I bought it now…but does someone sell as a kit? Will the same EI for my 318 be correct for my 383? I remember it being easy to order/install…I looked online doesn’t seem so simple anymore.
Points yes the same one 1381. I have them if needed. Take the points/cond and primary lead out install kit a few screws hook two wires up jump the ballast your done. Hour tops.
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NitrousTuner1
Member
OK First off your asking for the Best electronic ignition option for your 383.
It's 2023 & the 0G system is not only dated but scarce on Any decent builds. That in itself has been a #1 reason to abandon the boxes...
Also keeping the factory distributor & installing a Petronix kit keeps the poor timing curve & limits. It's NOT easy to adjust/limit the factory adv which is way too much... I tune for a living & have for decades. You want to be able to limit the mechanical advance to 16-19°
The aftermarket dist allow this to be done.
The Summit dist has better internals than the JEGS one for factory replacements.
MSD stuff has turned into garbage since the buyout.
The comment about not needing a "MSD" box system unless it's a race car is false.
ANY performance engine with a cam of any upgrade will benefit with cleaner idle & better throttle response by having 3 fast sparks under 3500rpm instead of the 1. Is it needed NO. But nor is a cotton style K&N air filter. But you still see cheap skates with a paper filter to save that $35.
The difference in the Pertronix ignitors is the II adds rev limiter & the III has a built in multispark.
I use MALLORY product that I've hoarded.
Many of my Comp 9000 distributors I've been running since 1992.
After MSD bought Mallory out just to shut them down & eliminate competition they received alot of hate & complaint from us builders & racers. They then returned making a VERY SMALL line of product which includes this coil. IF your gonna stay with the Mopar ECU box then THIS coil is by far your Best option. You'll need to open the spark plug gap .005 to gain the added current with the coil.
Mallory Ignition 29219 Mallory Canister Style Ignition Coils | Summit Racing
This is what I have in 5 different customer's engines with NO issue's & great tuning availability inside & with the vacuum advance.
CHRYSLER PerTronix D142710 PerTronix Flame-Thrower Plug and Play Billet Distributors with Ignitor II® Module | Summit Racing
Just my 2 cents... I sold this stuff daily for 13 year's at the 2 largest speed shops before going off to just tune & build
It's 2023 & the 0G system is not only dated but scarce on Any decent builds. That in itself has been a #1 reason to abandon the boxes...
Also keeping the factory distributor & installing a Petronix kit keeps the poor timing curve & limits. It's NOT easy to adjust/limit the factory adv which is way too much... I tune for a living & have for decades. You want to be able to limit the mechanical advance to 16-19°
The aftermarket dist allow this to be done.
The Summit dist has better internals than the JEGS one for factory replacements.
MSD stuff has turned into garbage since the buyout.
The comment about not needing a "MSD" box system unless it's a race car is false.
ANY performance engine with a cam of any upgrade will benefit with cleaner idle & better throttle response by having 3 fast sparks under 3500rpm instead of the 1. Is it needed NO. But nor is a cotton style K&N air filter. But you still see cheap skates with a paper filter to save that $35.
The difference in the Pertronix ignitors is the II adds rev limiter & the III has a built in multispark.
I use MALLORY product that I've hoarded.
Many of my Comp 9000 distributors I've been running since 1992.
After MSD bought Mallory out just to shut them down & eliminate competition they received alot of hate & complaint from us builders & racers. They then returned making a VERY SMALL line of product which includes this coil. IF your gonna stay with the Mopar ECU box then THIS coil is by far your Best option. You'll need to open the spark plug gap .005 to gain the added current with the coil.
Mallory Ignition 29219 Mallory Canister Style Ignition Coils | Summit Racing
This is what I have in 5 different customer's engines with NO issue's & great tuning availability inside & with the vacuum advance.
CHRYSLER PerTronix D142710 PerTronix Flame-Thrower Plug and Play Billet Distributors with Ignitor II® Module | Summit Racing
Just my 2 cents... I sold this stuff daily for 13 year's at the 2 largest speed shops before going off to just tune & build
There are ways to check condenser and coil with an ohm meter correct? Anyone know the procedure?
Seems to me…years ago I fixed another hard starting hot mopar of mine this way. I knew there was a possible simple fix for this. I believe this is it. The condenser…want to check both though…after reading this post by Jakter. Thank you!
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
As you know that is what I built for my car. GM HEI and Ford E-Coil through a relay.
If I may.. I had a hot hard starting problem on my Newport when I had points. I switched over to a Petronix and while the engine ran much better, it still started hard when hot. I have the original manual and on a whim, decided to read it (imagine that!)... Well, hot start procedure is to push pedal down part way and turn the key. Boom, never had the issue again. I mention this as I was thinking "engine hot, just turn key and should have instant idle." Nope.. For me, it was RTFM.. how are you starting it when hot?
Interesting because I have hit the gas pedal when she’s hot/won’t start right away. Yes, this certainly does get it going with a bit of an awkward start/rough idle afterwards. Question…my small block 318’s have never had this problem that I can remember. Is this an inherent problem with big blocks? I’ve tried raising the carburetor off the intake with a thicker insulator gasket. Doesn’t do a thing. I always smell gas…just doesn’t seem right. I’ve often thought perhaps I should put a shutoff in the gas line close to carb. Shut that off as soon as I shut down motor…just to see if there’s a gas dumping issue. You would think the needle valve would do that though.
darth_linux
Well-Known Member
I occasionally get this symptom of a rough idle after a hot start for about 10 seconds. I think it's too much gas pooling up in the intake floor . . .
I'll be honest, I have seen big and small blocks start easy, hard or something in between with the same procedure. One size does not fit all. With that, I would keep it simple and would not throw parts at it.
Time for process of elimination.
Where to start? Whew.. I don't quite know. Maybe try this next time you expect the hard start: Press the pedal to the floor and start it. Be ready to take your foot off of course so you don't redline it. That will shut off the fuel flow. If that doesn't do it try the night test. Pop the hood, shut off all lights and be sure to be in a dark place. Let your eyes adjust and then stare at the engine (from a safe distance!). If you see flashes all over the wiring and dist, you could have a bum wire, spark plug or dist. Keep in mind some light flashing will happen and does not indicate a hard failure. You are looking for obvious arcs to areas of ground (mainly engine, ex manifold). Look at the spark plugs too if you can. I had one go bad could not see it arcing under the exhaust manifold.
This is why I am advising not to replace parts yet. I was bit by a NEW dist that was MIC and the contacts had corroded within a couple of months. I replaced everything else (some more than once) and the issue was getting worse. I pulled the dist and there it was. I had kept the orig OEM dist and put it back on. 12 plus years later, it is still there doing its job..
Good luck, let us know how it goes..
Time for process of elimination.
Where to start? Whew.. I don't quite know. Maybe try this next time you expect the hard start: Press the pedal to the floor and start it. Be ready to take your foot off of course so you don't redline it. That will shut off the fuel flow. If that doesn't do it try the night test. Pop the hood, shut off all lights and be sure to be in a dark place. Let your eyes adjust and then stare at the engine (from a safe distance!). If you see flashes all over the wiring and dist, you could have a bum wire, spark plug or dist. Keep in mind some light flashing will happen and does not indicate a hard failure. You are looking for obvious arcs to areas of ground (mainly engine, ex manifold). Look at the spark plugs too if you can. I had one go bad could not see it arcing under the exhaust manifold.
This is why I am advising not to replace parts yet. I was bit by a NEW dist that was MIC and the contacts had corroded within a couple of months. I replaced everything else (some more than once) and the issue was getting worse. I pulled the dist and there it was. I had kept the orig OEM dist and put it back on. 12 plus years later, it is still there doing its job..
Good luck, let us know how it goes..
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