Dont wanna burn up my car

Big_John said:
@Rosco
I hope I didn't scare you off.

I've gone through some long winded explanations in some other threads and gotten kind of frustrated, so I may have come on a little strong. Sorry if it looks that way. I do want to help.

A little reading: Alternators and Regulators (Session 228) from the Master Technician's Service Conference

Accompanying video:



I'll show you how to set up a load test, similar to the service procedure, without a carbon pile, using just a voltmeter and a jumper.
Click to expand...

Yo Big John!! Thanks for the info. regarding my post! I look forward to the video and greatly appreciate your offer to help diagnose. I've got the JOB keeping me busy but really appreciate you reaching out.
I totally agree with what you've said regarding charging vs. ammeter problems. The ammeter issue caught my attention as I've always had the battery drain thing at low rpms and then dead (barely able to start the engine) battery the next morning- I watch the ammeter more than the road and am constantly tapping the gas to try and put the needle on the positive side of the scale. Where I drive my car I need to go slow for about 10 miles down a dirt road to get home. It's always at night with the heater blower running high. I'd like to change the outcome but would like to keep my ammeter as is.
So, it'll be fun to see what exactly is going on and then come up with a solution that fits my needs. Only problem is it will be about 2 ½ months before the Fury is in a condition to run tests... I've got a bunch of parts pulled off and am putting it all back together, slowly. Also, it's best for me to try and head off issues before hand as my car lives down in Mexico and getting parts is a hassle so I'm trying to learn and plan ahead of time.
 
Rosco said:
Yo Big John!! Thanks for the info. regarding my post! I look forward to the video and greatly appreciate your offer to help diagnose. I've got the JOB keeping me busy but really appreciate you reaching out.
I totally agree with what you've said regarding charging vs. ammeter problems. The ammeter issue caught my attention as I've always had the battery drain thing at low rpms and then dead (barely able to start the engine) battery the next morning- I watch the ammeter more than the road and am constantly tapping the gas to try and put the needle on the positive side of the scale. Where I drive my car I need to go slow for about 10 miles down a dirt road to get home. It's always at night with the heater blower running high. I'd like to change the outcome but would like to keep my ammeter as is.
So, it'll be fun to see what exactly is going on and then come up with a solution that fits my needs. Only problem is it will be about 2 ½ months before the Fury is in a condition to run tests... I've got a bunch of parts pulled off and am putting it all back together, slowly. Also, it's best for me to try and head off issues before hand as my car lives down in Mexico and getting parts is a hassle so I'm trying to learn and plan ahead of time.
Click to expand...
Job? I seem to remember having one of those... I try not to think about it.

I'll put something together to get you started. Since you've got some time, we'll get you some edumacation in the fine arts of charging system diagnosis. I'll post something tomorrow.
 
Big_John said:
Job? I seem to remember having one of those... I try not to think about it.

I'll put something together to get you started. Since you've got some time, we'll get you some edumacation in the fine arts of charging system diagnosis. I'll post something tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Much appreciated!
And, since we're still on the subject could you clarify at some point the reason the ammeters tend to catch on fire? That was my original query- what aspect of those things is the weak link- the way they're wired, the meter itself, both?? Not urgent.
 
Big_John said:
@Rosco
I hope I didn't scare you off.

I've gone through some long winded explanations in some other threads and gotten kind of frustrated, so I may have come on a little strong. Sorry if it looks that way. I do want to help.

A little reading: Alternators and Regulators (Session 228) from the Master Technician's Service Conference

Accompanying video:



I'll show you how to set up a load test, similar to the service procedure, without a carbon pile, using just a voltmeter and a jumper.
Click to expand...

Such a great video!! Oh man those old videos were so great. Thanks for the info.
TOTALLY off topic but you may appreciate this one about how a differential works:
 
saylor said:
and while a larger ALT may (is) in your future, you cant just bolt it in or you will melt everything else.

welcome to mopar charging circuits 101. enjoy your stay.
Click to expand...

Thanks!!
I've been back and forth with Big John and we all agree I gotta check the charging system out BUT, I think a higher output alternator is in my future. You even said with a stock alternator you're going to have dim lights at night with low idle and the heater blower blasting...
Stage two of Mopar charging systems 101 I think is going to need to be how to add a higher charging alternator without setting the car on fire. I've read about the headlight relay mods. By bypassing the original headlight circuit I'm not sure how this would affect the ammeter accuracy. I like the ammeter as is. It sounds a lot easier to try halogen bulbs first. Either way, I need to see how my charging system is working. Wont happen for 2 to 3 months.
My car and I dont live together. Long story. I'd like to bring a new alternator with me when I get down to the Fury and get it going, preferably one that charges the battery at low rpm with my headlights on and the heater blasting. Any models come to mind?
 
hey bro you are hearing us but you aint listening :)

its WAY easier 'to try halogen bulbs first'. but you are using 50 year old wiring and 50 year old lamp sockets and you still have the whole power for the lights running thru the dimmer switch on the floor and you have fixed or improved nothing. all you did was change some light bulbs.

You need to spend this time learning exactly WHY you have yellow headlights at idle with the heater on. And WHY your battery is almost dead the next morning. Once you understand that, you will be educated enough to know how to proceed to address it.

Alternators have a 'come on' point - meaning they arent putting out power til they are spinning at X rate of r.p.m. Generally speaking, they turn from 2:1 / 3:1 / 4:1 to the motor - i.e. your motor is doing 500rpm your alt may be doing 1000rpm (2:1), etc. Alternators ususally start to come on around 1200rpm at the ALT. good alternator companies can provide a curve graph of output.

so say your alt comes on at 1200 rpm. say its 2:1. say your engine is idle at 550 rpm. you are at a stoplight. you havent kicked the ALT on yet at idle it hasnt 'come on' yet - you are running off BATT at this moment. your ALT is only turning 1100rpm at idle. in this example.


try not to die -

- saylor
 
none of this replaces you testing for losses, checking wire condition, cleaning up all terminals, fixing grounds, etc.

Your Pal -

- Saylor
 
big 10-4 on chasing the problem. Will do. HOwever, I do need an alternator. With the stock system checked out and everything fixed/addressed to be working like it's supposed to are you saying I should be able to drive at low rpm with bright lights and the heater blasting?
I need to plan ahead. My car lives in Mexico and I need to bring parts down with me otherwise it's a hassle to get them. If the answer is no then what would be the fix? HIgher output alt? Relay modification? Ammeter mod? For me it's all about the low speed battery drain, an issue that has existed on my car since I inherited it from my grandpa in 1985 and has never changed- even with all the "new" alternators and regulators over the years...
 
Rosco said:
even with all the "new" alternators and regulators over the years...
Click to expand...
So you've chased this already by the Parts Throwing Method, and nothing's changed? Then maybe you just have a wiring issue.

Test, test, test some more. If four different alternators and three regulators (I made up those numbers) haven't changed anything, why would another alternator do anything different?

Triple check a the wires involved in the charging system until you find that one(s) that needs replacing.

Sucks the car isn't close to you and you have to bring parts to it, but you really need to only bring tools until you figure it out. I knew my issue before I used the ammeter bypass to move my car, but it's only a bandaid for now, until I replace the known bad part. After replacement, I'll do the ammeter bypass as a little insurance, and lessen the load on the ammeter.

I suggest you PM @Big_John and have him walk you through what you need to do, he's here to help, and since he's free from the bonds of employment, he has time available some others may not. We'd love to hear that you lights shine bright, and you have that blower motor on high, and the car fired on the first crank the next day.
 
https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBLlfm4cGB+oE

a alternator curve. i happened across just this morning. for my new truck. but they look like this.

i get your car is in mexico i remember you headed down there before to do suspension or something.

order headlamp sockets off blamazon and premake yourself a headlight wiring harness per crackedback and slant6 dans guides. or mine. i copied them. it plugs into the existing headlamp socket so is very easy to deploy.

get a multimeter.

get a spool of 10ga, 12ga, and 14ga stranded copper wire. get some melty butt connectors, heat shrink tubing, and a wire crimper tool. get assortment of ring terminals and stuff.

take all that crap and go to mexico.

do the needful.

if you fix all the wires and grounds and check your voltage losses and stuff and repair anything you find you will be in fine shape

we will be right here. seems like you were able to post now and then last time keep us updated.
 
oh get some inline fuses. make the ALT <> BATT wires. I used 50a fuses on each end / both ends. cbarge or someone used a fusible link. both have reasons.

you CAN put a bigger ALT up to like 65a or so i forget, or the powermaster 110a ALT or such - but then past stock amp levels you need to beef up your charging wires up to 10ga.
and the wires are old AF. its good to run a new line with fuse protection.

NOT a self resetting circuit breaker. it must be a once/fail type of circuit. the fuse breaks or the fuse link melts. Personally id fuse both ends the ALT side and the BATT side.

i undid my ALT once and plumb forgot it has a hot post on it and set it up on the fender... pretty soon the whole side of the car started getting hot...

unhook your BATT + before anything.

try not to die -

- saylor
 
Big_John said:
@Rosco
I hope I didn't scare you off.

I've gone through some long winded explanations in some other threads and gotten kind of frustrated, so I may have come on a little strong. Sorry if it looks that way. I do want to help.

A little reading: Alternators and Regulators (Session 228) from the Master Technician's Service Conference

Accompanying video:



I'll show you how to set up a load test, similar to the service procedure, without a carbon pile, using just a voltmeter and a jumper.
Click to expand...



Great videos those. I watched one on the New Process 833 the other day. Same vintage.
 
Rosco said:
able to drive at low rpm with bright lights and the heater blasting?
I need to plan ahead. My car lives in Mexico
Click to expand...

I’m just a bystander here, but why is your car in Mexico and with that being the case why do you need the heat blasting?

Asking for a friend
 
tallhair said:
Great videos those. I watched one on the New Process 833 the other day. Same vintage.
Click to expand...
Gotta remember those were film strips way back when...

There's a couple great sources for those "Master Technician Service Conferences".

The Imperial club has a lot of the literature and some of the video/film strips dating back to 1947. Great factory info there. You can't go wrong with how they do things. Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics

The other can be sourced through YouTube and will have a lot of other advertising videos too. https://www.youtube.com/user/mymopartv/videos or it can be sourced through their website with a better index system. MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Browse MTSC by Topic

I always like to look at the non-sorted/indexed stuff though. Things catch my eye that I might not be looking for.
 
Big_John said:
Gotta remember those were film strips way back when...

There's a couple great sources for those "Master Technician Service Conferences".

The Imperial club has a lot of the literature and some of the video/film strips dating back to 1947. Great factory info there. You can't go wrong with how they do things. Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics

The other can be sourced through YouTube and will have a lot of other advertising videos too. https://www.youtube.com/user/mymopartv/videos or it can be sourced through their website with a better index system. MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Browse MTSC by Topic

I always like to look at the non-sorted/indexed stuff though. Things catch my eye that I might not be looking for.
Click to expand...


Yeah the one I watched was a filmstrip with audio from tape made to video. I have a few filmstrips dad had. No audio though.
 
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