kenfyoozed
Member
We have 100% "marine" ethanol free fuel but its about $1.25 more per gallon. Once I get the carb rebuilt and this current tank ran through it I plan to try better fuel....
Edelbrock 1411 insulated spacer
- Thread starter kenfyoozed
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I switched to the ethanol free fuels a couple of years ago. It is more expensive, but it more than pays for itself in that fuel pumps and carbs do no gunk up and corrode over winter and fuel tanks do not rot out.
Dave
Daily drivers can get by with the ethanol. Problem is, if you let this fuel blend sit over winter, especially in a damp or humid climate, the ethanol picks up moisture and starts to break down into a corrosive by product. You will find the carb full of white goo that eats up the lead seams in the floats, the brass in the floats and the pot metal in the fuel pumps and carb body. The tin plating in the fuel tank goes and the tank rusts out. That is the reality. On a daily driver the fuel is constantly recycled and used so the corrosion is not an issue. But by all means run which ever fuel is appropriate for you circumstances.
Dave
Although I would have doubted Uncle Tony's claims I just rebuilt my Edelbrock 1406 on my 440. The previous owner did not work on the car and ran pump gas mostly as I have the last 3 years of ownership. So I gave it a go over and was surprised how clean the carb was. Other than the floats set wrong there was no problem . I soaked the carb housings halves after removing jets etc and after soaking for 6 hours blew all holes out with compressed air. I then re assembled the carb with the Edelbrock rebuilding kit. Man these things are easy compared to the quadrajets I screwed around with when I was a kid. There was no white goo or rusted out tank,,, yet. Not promoting ethanol gas but interesting that fuel today does not have the gunk and goo like the past he spoke of.
kenfyoozed
Member
Would braided fuel hose help any? Ill get some pics of how my fuel line runs now...
kenfyoozed
Member
Here is my current fuel line set up.
I put this under my 1406 edelbrock and no more problems. I did end up planning it down to about 5/8 thick to fit under the hood.
https://www.amazon.com/Edelbrock-87...for+edelbrock&qid=1561829576&s=gateway&sr=8-7
https://www.amazon.com/Edelbrock-87...for+edelbrock&qid=1561829576&s=gateway&sr=8-7
pomonamissel
Senior Member
hows this one , you guys can run what fuel lines you like , some are just better then others . i've never had an engine fuel fire with metal or teflon , i can not say the same for my rubber hose setup , once that happen with full rubber runs . i've never gone that way again . and most ss braided lines are rubber under that sheath of ss braid , ss braid on teflon works very well . my methods can be a bit out there , away from the heat . this system has a large fram can type filter at the frame hosed end , copper back to the tank as well .
kenfyoozed
Member
rebuilt the carb and added an insulator gasket. Took the car for a ride for about 20mins. When I got back home this is what the carb was doing.....
This is what was going on at the fuel filter...
And then about 10-15 mins later this is the hard start....
This is what was going on at the fuel filter...
And then about 10-15 mins later this is the hard start....
kenfyoozed
Member
I set the float height at 7/8" using a drill bit as the height gauge and the drop was set at 15/16-1". Is this incorrect? What should they be set at?
When you were starting the car after the run, what throttle position were you using?
Reason I ask is that although it might seem to make things worse, with the additional accel pump shot from opening the throttle 1/2 way to start, it also puts more air into the engine to help clear out the over-rich mixture quicker. The Chrysler owner's manual recommends using 1/3 throttle opening for starting and that seemed to work well back then.
The OTHER thing is to make sure the timing is where it needs to be, or even advanced a few degrees more (as long as it doesn't trace rattle on acceleration), for good measure. Using some of the "fine wire" .040" center electrode "quick start" spark plugs might help, too, or the NGK V-Power plugs.
As for the rubber fuel lines replacing metal . . . it's a known fact that ethanol dries-out the rubber hoses, from the inside out. After it "cleans" the inside layer of rubber of its oils, the next layer is the cloth reinforcement layer, THEN that will probably start to seep through the outside layer of rubber, which can then flake off. Therefore, minimize the use of rubber fuel line segments to what Chrysler used. Use metal lines elsewhere . . . or possibly formed plastic (as current lines are).
As for the OEM carb specs . . . they were all designed for back when "gas was gas", not what we have now. So you might need to run the floats at the "minimum" rather than the "maximum" level. It might not cure the percolation, but it might lessen its duration a bit. And you'll probably not notice any difference in performance . . . as long as the fuel pump works right.
On our '66 Newport 383, the opaque Fram fuel filters could have varying levels of fuel showing in them. Even looked empty, but the car still ran fine. Sometimes, 1/2 full, other times not. Might be one reason the OEM filters were shiny metal rather than opaque plastic?
ALSO make sure whatever venting the fuel tank has is working! That fuel can expand, too! Road pavement temps can be well past 100 degrees when the ambient temp is much lower. That heat radiates and hits the fuel tank when the car stops (is shutoff or at a red light). Something else to consider.
So, make sure the charging system is in good shape and learn the best throttle position to start the car quickest, hot or cold.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Reason I ask is that although it might seem to make things worse, with the additional accel pump shot from opening the throttle 1/2 way to start, it also puts more air into the engine to help clear out the over-rich mixture quicker. The Chrysler owner's manual recommends using 1/3 throttle opening for starting and that seemed to work well back then.
The OTHER thing is to make sure the timing is where it needs to be, or even advanced a few degrees more (as long as it doesn't trace rattle on acceleration), for good measure. Using some of the "fine wire" .040" center electrode "quick start" spark plugs might help, too, or the NGK V-Power plugs.
As for the rubber fuel lines replacing metal . . . it's a known fact that ethanol dries-out the rubber hoses, from the inside out. After it "cleans" the inside layer of rubber of its oils, the next layer is the cloth reinforcement layer, THEN that will probably start to seep through the outside layer of rubber, which can then flake off. Therefore, minimize the use of rubber fuel line segments to what Chrysler used. Use metal lines elsewhere . . . or possibly formed plastic (as current lines are).
As for the OEM carb specs . . . they were all designed for back when "gas was gas", not what we have now. So you might need to run the floats at the "minimum" rather than the "maximum" level. It might not cure the percolation, but it might lessen its duration a bit. And you'll probably not notice any difference in performance . . . as long as the fuel pump works right.
On our '66 Newport 383, the opaque Fram fuel filters could have varying levels of fuel showing in them. Even looked empty, but the car still ran fine. Sometimes, 1/2 full, other times not. Might be one reason the OEM filters were shiny metal rather than opaque plastic?
ALSO make sure whatever venting the fuel tank has is working! That fuel can expand, too! Road pavement temps can be well past 100 degrees when the ambient temp is much lower. That heat radiates and hits the fuel tank when the car stops (is shutoff or at a red light). Something else to consider.
So, make sure the charging system is in good shape and learn the best throttle position to start the car quickest, hot or cold.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
kenfyoozed
Member
I did not use the accelerator at all because I was thinking the extra shot of fuel would worsen the situation. I will try the 1/3 pedal and try to learn what she likes.
I do not have a vacuum gauge at the moment but when I get one i was going to use that to help set the proper timing using the vacuum engine timing technique.
The rebuild kit did not have a range to set the floats. What is suggested?
Where would I start to look for the venting of the fuel tank?
Also would a high torque starter help spin it over faster to clear out flooded situation and refill the bowls? I thought I remembered seeing a suggestion for an OEM starter for another vehicle that would fit the mopars.
I do not have a vacuum gauge at the moment but when I get one i was going to use that to help set the proper timing using the vacuum engine timing technique.
The rebuild kit did not have a range to set the floats. What is suggested?
Where would I start to look for the venting of the fuel tank?
Also would a high torque starter help spin it over faster to clear out flooded situation and refill the bowls? I thought I remembered seeing a suggestion for an OEM starter for another vehicle that would fit the mopars.
kenfyoozed
Member
by "lowering" the floats I would increase the distance between the carb top and float? So larger than 7/16"? How does this help the fuel percolating?
"Proper timing" is done using a timing light, not a vacuum gauge, from my experiences. Using a vacuum gauge can result in a very over-advanced initial timing setting. There is a way to set the timing "by ear", but at about 2500rpm, not at idle. BUT you have to be attentive to the engine's sounds/rpm to make that work as it should. Best to start with the timing light, hopefully a "dial-back" so you can check advance levels, too.
Fuel tanks "vent" at one or two places. One is the fuel cap and the other is at the front of the tank, near where the fuel line goes from the sending unit to the chassis fuel line. Check some of the service manuals at www.mymopar.com for those illustrations. Find a model year close to yours, of the specific one is not there.
On the existing float, there should be "a line" or other colorations to see where the float level has been for a good while. It should parallel the top of the float bowl sealing surface, typically. Easy to see, from my experiences. Using a Viton tip float set-up should work best, rather than a metal-to-metal needle and seat situation. Also check the FSM carburetor section for the float setting specs. All of the old 300 Letter cars used Carter AFBs, which is where your Edelbrock AFB started life. www.jholst.net is a 1965 and prior resource for those cars, with parts books and service manuals for them, which also can cross with normal Chrysler models. Might find some information/guidance in that website.
Lowering the float level will lower the fuel level in the float bowl. If the level (now correct?) is resulting in fuel expansion from heat soak, then lowering the basic level a small amount might result in less fuel to expand, hopefully decreasing the percolation issues. But lowering the fuel level by 1/64" might not make that much real difference.
I know the "help line/tech assistance" people will do what they can, but I also suspect that many will be reading from their company literature trouble trees, with possibly little real experience in these issues? So, be prepared if they tell you what you've already read. No "slam" on them as they are doing what they can, just that many probably didn't know the cars when they were new. So take their recommendations for what they are, "recommendations" and position that against what other information you have discovered before doing anything significant. I cracked the base on the AVS on my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl trying to chase a hot re-start issue, with a stack of aluminum plates and soft gaskets. Didn't take much! So, that's why I recommend only the OEM-spec thick base plate with the bushings in the mounting stud holes! This was back when the car was "a used car" and I could buy a correct replacement AVS new from Carter. Small crack on the corner where the vacuum advance nipple is, from that last little bit of turning on the hold-down nut.
CBODY67
kenfyoozed
Member
Timing at idle is 11* and at 3500 it is 36*
Also should I start looking at blocking off the heat riser?
Also should I start looking at blocking off the heat riser?
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Timing is in a good ballpark. Maybe even 2 degrees more, as long as it doesn't clatter.
Personally, I'd make the blocked heat riser passage a "last resort" situation. What you might try is fishing out the package of insulation between the intake manifold and the valley pan gasket. Letting air flow under the manifold as one of the Edelbrock RPM manifolds does. Easy to stuff it back in later on.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Personally, I'd make the blocked heat riser passage a "last resort" situation. What you might try is fishing out the package of insulation between the intake manifold and the valley pan gasket. Letting air flow under the manifold as one of the Edelbrock RPM manifolds does. Easy to stuff it back in later on.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
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