New to me 78 NYB on its way but please Don't tell my wife

[Pclancy]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm at Apprentice level at best. Little chance of Journeyman and forget about Master all together.

The only point I can say with confidence is that people are not aware that there are two ATC II systems. The latter ATC II, which was introduced for the 1974 MY. Two different designs and two different troubleshooting methods. I have both the ATC II (73 and earlier) and the ATC II (74 & up) manuals. The biggest difference is that the Mercedes repair parts are only applicable to the earlier ATC II.

I emailed the gentleman at performance analysis who confirmed that his amp works on Chrysler ATC II systems. I did not explain to him that there are two different ATC II systems, nor did I ask him to confirm that his parts work on the latter ATC II. Should I have? Thanks.

 

[commando1]

I emailed the gentleman at performance analysis who confirmed that his amp works on Chrysler ATC II systems. I did not explain to him that there are two different ATC II systems, nor did I ask him to confirm that his parts work on the latter ATC II. Should I have? Thanks.

No, you're good.
It's the servo that is not on the 74-78 ATC II.

 

[LeBaron1973]

Does this shop seem like they know how to diagnose and repair ATC II problems? Have they done this before? I live in dread of mine breaking. Thank for letting me know.

Yes, Randy is skilled in the old cars and my friend in Wisconsin Perry Bush recommended him. Perry stated that on one visit Randy and a staffer were under the hood with all the manuals going through things.

Chances are good that they'll pull out the dash and sort things out from inside which will be great.

Basically, as we all agreed when I was there last Nov they're going through everything starting from the front bumper and ending at the rear one.

Then I'll tidy up the paint so it'll be ok when it eventually arrives here in Christchurch in a year or so.

Lots of happy motoring then at what will probably be 10.00 a gallon by then.

Lol.

Give them a call and see what they say, its not their everyday work but they can do it.

Good luck, hope they can help you.

 

[Pclancy]

Yes, Randy is skilled in the old cars and my friend in Wisconsin Perry Bush recommended him. Perry stated that on one visit Randy and a staffer were under the hood with all the manuals going through things.

Chances are good that they'll pull out the dash and sort things out from inside which will be great.

Basically, as we all agreed when I was there last Nov they're going through everything starting from the front bumper and ending at the rear one.

Then I'll tidy up the paint so it'll be ok when it eventually arrives here in Christchurch in a year or so.

Lots of happy motoring then at what will probably be 10.00 a gallon by then.

Lol.

Give them a call and see what they say, its not their everyday work but they can do it.

Good luck, hope they can help you.

I just called Randy, who seemed like a very nice guy. He was unaware of the existence of performance analysis in Tenn who has parts for the ATC II system. At least they have the amplifiers. So I sent him the link, as well as a link to the imperial club page which has loads of info on how to diagnose and repair ATC II systems. I also told him I have a purpose built tester for ATC II systems, and offered to lend it to him if he wanted. So we agreed to stay in touch, and if he sorts through your car, and gets it fixed, then at least I have one more option when mine breaks down, as it inevitably will one day. These formals are a labor of love. Best of luck.

 

[73 T&C]

A word about “the Shop”....

It belongs to my friend Ivan Nuñez and is called Auto Brakes Plus. Been in business for about 10 years.

I am a friend of Ivan’s and I hold a very small interest in the shop.... because he asked me. I own or have donated some of the minor equipment and have a set of keys that I only use on the weekend or when they are closed and always with permission. I do store some cars there and work on my cars as well as pay for and use his services for work that I do not have time or a desire to do.

He prepares invoices for that work like any other client and I pay them like any other client.

I do consult on some of the more challenging projects he does like restorations or old cars he wants to do work on. Currently he is working on a ‘55 Mercedes 280 cabriolet, BMW 3.0 CS, 1972 Toyota Celica beyond the garden variety common repairs associated with a repair shop.

I provide him with copies of the FSM manuals for each and every car I own to keep on hand and he has indeed learned quite a bit.

On the saturdays I do go in it is always booked ahead of time for use of one of the bays and lifts. I also, usually buy lunch for the entire crew.

I guess you can say I am persona most grata at his shop but it is not mine... although sometimes I do think he thinks that. We always have fun and only very rarely argue .... usually an overcharge he is trying to push that I catch or want to playfully argue.

As to the current ATC repairs I am starting, Ivan and I have tackled similar systems on several of my previous cars... both cadillacs and Lincolns (Eldorado, two Seville’s one MarkIII and one Mark IV) The Mopar system is very similar.

Both are Cooling/re-heat systems with modulated outside air and fan speed controls all tied to a central rotating vacuum control valve and electrical slide control unit. Whereas the Delco system is vacuum driven, the Mopar is an electric motor driven clockwork system. Both systems used a series of resistors in series (sliding potentiometer thermostat resistor, cabin air temp sensor resistor and ambient incoming air temp resistor) to send a signal in the form of a modified low voltage which sets up a difference with a similar base modified voltage in the amplifier that is then converted to a control signal to a motor (electric or vacuum) that then drives the controller. If the sensor signals is greater than base signal, the actuates the servo motor in one direction to compensate. If the signal is less than base, the amplifier sends the servo in the opposite direction. In other words it’s a big confusing Rube Goldberg device that all must work perfectly to get heat when it’s cold or A/C when it’s hot out of the proper outlet. But hey..... it’s a puzzle. Oh what fun!!

 

[73 T&C]

If you require more information on the ATC, my '73 is being attended to by experienced guys at Randalls Auto Haus in Menasha WI (920) 727-1826 or (920) 725-8575. Perhaps a call will assist you with repairs to yours.

In any event, you have a beautiful car which I hope gives you much pleasure once sorted.

I will call them. Thanks.

 

[73 T&C]

Unless I missed it somewhere else in the thread, have you told the wife yet? If the pictures I see are of your shop, then the car might be easily hidden from her view. But inquiring minds wanna know......

Almost there.... just gave her a check and told her I sold the Lincoln.

Remember.... PRESENTATION!!!!’

That’s the difference between a villain and a SUPER villain !!!!

 

[LocuMob]

I'd be dead man. I'm glad you can do that, in my case I keep getting shorter - I just keep digging a hole. I told Laura about my Polara 500 and her response was "call him". I was shocked, but she knew where I was coming from. Of course,her next line was "sell something". That I didn't like. Oh well, can't keep them all (but I'll try!)

 

[73 T&C]

Jaguar XJS is about to go on “vacation”.... because if you can’t see them all you can maybe keep the best ones.

 

[LeBaron1973]

I just called Randy, who seemed like a very nice guy. He was unaware of the existence of performance analysis in Tenn who has parts for the ATC II system. At least they have the amplifiers. So I sent him the link, as well as a link to the imperial club page which has loads of info on how to diagnose and repair ATC II systems. I also told him I have a purpose built tester for ATC II systems, and offered to lend it to him if he wanted. So we agreed to stay in touch, and if he sorts through your car, and gets it fixed, then at least I have one more option when mine breaks down, as it inevitably will one day. These formals are a labor of love. Best of luck.

Thanks so much for that, it's wonderful to know where he can get parts and advice when required.

I'm extremely grateful for your assistance.

 

[Pclancy]

A word about “the Shop”....

It belongs to my friend Ivan Nuñez and is called Auto Brakes Plus. Been in business for about 10 years.

I am a friend of Ivan’s and I hold a very small interest in the shop.... because he asked me. I own or have donated some of the minor equipment and have a set of keys that I only use on the weekend or when they are closed and always with permission. I do store some cars there and work on my cars as well as pay for and use his services for work that I do not have time or a desire to do.

He prepares invoices for that work like any other client and I pay them like any other client.

I do consult on some of the more challenging projects he does like restorations or old cars he wants to do work on. Currently he is working on a ‘55 Mercedes 280 cabriolet, BMW 3.0 CS, 1972 Toyota Celica beyond the garden variety common repairs associated with a repair shop.

I provide him with copies of the FSM manuals for each and every car I own to keep on hand and he has indeed learned quite a bit.

On the saturdays I do go in it is always booked ahead of time for use of one of the bays and lifts. I also, usually buy lunch for the entire crew.

I guess you can say I am persona most grata at his shop but it is not mine... although sometimes I do think he thinks that. We always have fun and only very rarely argue .... usually an overcharge he is trying to push that I catch or want to playfully argue.

As to the current ATC repairs I am starting, Ivan and I have tackled similar systems on several of my previous cars... both cadillacs and Lincolns (Eldorado, two Seville’s one MarkIII and one Mark IV) The Mopar system is very similar.

Both are Cooling/re-heat systems with modulated outside air and fan speed controls all tied to a central rotating vacuum control valve and electrical slide control unit. Whereas the Delco system is vacuum driven, the Mopar is an electric motor driven clockwork system. Both systems used a series of resistors in series (sliding potentiometer thermostat resistor, cabin air temp sensor resistor and ambient incoming air temp resistor) to send a signal in the form of a modified low voltage which sets up a difference with a similar base modified voltage in the amplifier that is then converted to a control signal to a motor (electric or vacuum) that then drives the controller. Greater than base signature actuated motor in one direction and less than base sends it in the opposite direction. In other words it’s a big confusing Rube Goldberg device that all must work perfectly to get heat when it’s cold or A/C when it’s hot out of the proper outlet. But hey..... it’s a puzzle. Oh what fun!!

I look forward to—-somehow— benefitting from your knowledge of the ATC II system. I have already had a problem with my compressor, which somehow ran dangererously low on r134a and oil under my watch. Shame. My mechanic said he didn’t like the way the air was not flowing out of the dash vents on ac and so switched some stuff around. That freaked me out as I was unaware of the problem—this happened in the middle of the winter and I had not used the ac for many months—and if he was correct, Lord knows what was going on. But he seemed satisfied with his tinkering. I await warmer weather to see how my ac runs now. Gulp.

 

[73 T&C]

I look forward to—-somehow— benefitting from your knowledge of the ATC II system. I have already had a problem with my compressor, which somehow ran dangererously low on r134a and oil under my watch. Shame. My mechanic said he didn’t like the way the air was not flowing out of the dash vents on ac and so switched some stuff around. That freaked me out as I was unaware of the problem—this happened in the middle of the winter and I had not used the ac for many months—and if he was correct, Lord knows what was going on. But he seemed satisfied with his tinkering. I await warmer weather to see how my ac runs now. Gulp.

I’m just starting now... actually Saturday.... getting the A/C system part of it working properly.

From there I’ll begin testing the different vacuum connections and power distribution to make sure everything is properly connected. Then I’ll test each of the actuator motors for the different dampers and doors to make sure they’re not stuck and operating freely. After that, I’ll check the sensors and thermostat against their FSM rated parameters. Finally, it’s the amplifier and servo to make sure they are responding to each other. Thay last is the biggest part of it. I’ve already sourced some replacements in case they fail to work. If it all checks out then it should work.

In theory.

In practice there will be cussing, a lot of dissambly of the dash pad, head scratching, calling around and posting.

 

[73 T&C]

Hankook 235 75R 15’s 724 with 3/4” White Walls are on their way. Should be in by Monday.... or so.

 

[Mr C]

today I’m going to just puzzle work on the ATC a bit.

Here’s what is happening:

I push off and blower goes off. I don’t hear any of the vacuum motors reset.

I push in vent and I get air out of the heating vents on the floor.

I push low or high auto heat and the fan does change speeds.

Same with low or high auto cool.

I push Defrost and the damper works and I get defrost.

What works and first checks:

As the car warms up the air gets warmer. There is no vacuum to water valve. Need to put it on heat to see if vacuum reaches the valve.

Vacuum seems to be getting to the dash switch.

Vacuum may not be getting to the servo.

Also need to check that main power to the servo and amplifier are present.
Power is reaching the blower
Power is getting to the compressor.

View attachment 172009

The only white line is coming off the servo to the transfer switch. Nowhere near where I found the line by the accelerator pedal.

This is what my system did before I replaced the black box (amplifier). I had air flowing only as if is was on defrost and could not get dash air or the fan to come on in vent mode.
You are correct. Vacuum is not cycling around the servo to change to dash vents etc because the servo is not getting an electric signal from the amplifier to turn and make those things happen. The working servo results in a quiet whirring noise behind the dash and then the "magic" happens( doors cycle etc for dash air...whatever).

 

[commando1]

In practice there will be cussing, a lot of dissambly of the dash pad, head scratching, calling around and posting.

Have I ever shown you MY dash all apart....

 

[75LandYacht]

Have I ever shown you MY dash all apart....

View attachment 172729

Was that the White 2Dr 4 speed car Stan?

 

[commando1]

Was that the White 2Dr 4 speed car Stan?

Yes. For when I was installing the clutch and brake pedal assembly.

 

[Ripinator]

Have I ever shown you MY dash all apart....

View attachment 172729

I've seen that picture before. . . But I say: "Holy ****!" every time I see it.

 

[commando1]

I've seen that picture before. . . But I say: "Holy ****!" every time I see it.

I just can't see myself having the cajones to do that again. EVER. If the ATC II craps the bed I'm just throwing it on ebay for $2,500 NR with a short line saying, "A/C needs charged"....

 

[73 T&C]

Have I ever shown you MY dash all apart....

View attachment 172729

Heading your way I’m sure!

I thought you said your were not even a journeyman.....Not bad for an Amateur.....with plenty of cojones