New to me 78 NYB on its way but please Don't tell my wife

[1978 NYB]

Interesting item about the lockup torque converter.

It explains a lot of what I’m talking about.

“Long-time mechanic and tuner Hemi Andersen wrote that “The original lockup speeds were too low, which caused the engine to labor and bog down. Chrysler sent out a modification kit, with a new lockup valve and heavier spring, as a free warranty repair. To install it, one had to take the valve body from the transmission. It locked up the torque converter at around 42 mph, rather than at 27 mph. (In 1988, a Chrysler tech manualspecified lockup and disengagement speeds as being around 24-50 mph, depending on the engineand axle; so, when accelerating lightly, the transmission could shift to third, stay there for a time, then engage the lockup clutch.)”

Came off Allpar site.

Mechanical override: Lockup torque converters

Did you know that the 1978 Chrysler 440 and 400 are the only big block converter's. Not all the 1978's got the lockup's. Chrysler didn't start introducing them until the 1978 production run was already running. Two ways to ID the lockup txsm was the tube on the valve body and the end of the input shaft on the txsm. If the last 5/8" end of the shaft was machined smooth it was a lockup. If it was fluted or spined all the way to the end of the shaft it was not a lockup.

 

[73 T&C]

Did you know that the 1978 Chrysler 440 and 400 are the only big block converter's. Not all the 1978's got the lockup's. Chrysler didn't start introducing them until the 1978 production run was already running. Two ways to ID the lockup txsm was the tube on the valve body and the end of the input shaft on the txsm. If the last 5/8" end of the shaft was machined smooth it was a lockup. If it was fluted or spined all the way to the end of the shaft it was not a lockup.

No. I did not.

Can you tell from build date?

 

[1978 NYB]

No. I did not.

Can you tell from build date?

I have inquired from Chrysler Historical and they said that they have virtually no data on 1978 C-Body data at all. They can't tell me what the last C-Body produced was a NY'er or a Newport or even when the last day of production was. My 1978 data book original print has the txsm info as a non-lockup and there is a printed correction taped over it stating a lockup txsm but doesn't have any other data or date when it changed. Data plates on both of my 1978 NY'er and Newport just has the D34 code and there isn't any designation code on the build sheets either.

 

[73 T&C]

I have inquired from Chrysler Historical and they said that they have virtually no data on 1978 C-Body data at all. They can't tell me what the last C-Body produced was a NY'er or a Newport or even when the last day of production was. My 1978 data book original print has the txsm info as a non-lockup and there is a printed correction taped over it stating a lockup txsm but doesn't have any other data or date when it changed. Data plates on both of my 1978 NY'er and Newport just has the D34 code and there isn't any designation code on the build sheets either.

D34 is lockup or just 727?

 

[1978 NYB]

D34 is just 727 designation..

 

[78Brougham]

Anyone try to look it up through the parts manual? Perhaps that would tell us more. Give you a point when the lockup took over from the standard converter.

 

[73 T&C]

My NYB was built early in the 78 production run so it’s most probably a standard 727. But it still shifts early as hell.

 

[1978 NYB]

I read somewhere....Maybe in the FSM that the RPM's were suppose to increase a little or something like that when the car maintained 35 mph and the converter locked up. It is suppose to be noticeable.

 

[73 T&C]

I read somewhere....Maybe in the FSM that the RPM's were suppose to increase a little or something like that when the car maintained 35 mph and the converter locked up. It is suppose to be noticeable.

If the lock up engaged, the rpm would drop due to the lack of slip in the torque converter. I agree it would also be quite noticeable. I’m not seeing it on my NYB.

What I am seeing is that it upshifts very quickly 1st-2nd and then 2nd-3rd as low as 27mph. All this with minimal effect from the throttle. My wagon will hold 2nd up to 45 if I give it good throttle. As I said, the linkage was adjustable on my 73 but not on my 78. If I old lady the throttle the 73 shifts almost the same as the 78 under much more throttle.

 

[73 T&C]

Just out of curiosity, I took one of the junker Spark control system computers apart

Looks pretty well made to me. Vacuum canister still holds vacuum well. Will test it tomorrow as to variable resistance under different vacuum levels.

 

[70NEWYORKER]

As I said, the linkage was adjustable on my 73 but not on my 78. If I old lady the throttle the 73 shifts almost the same as the 78 under much more throttle.

Emissions and fuel economy constraints. Find some old adjustable linkage and install it. Amazing what a difference it makes!!!! I did this on some M and R bodies back in the early eighties. Delaying the upshifts about 5 miles an hour really made them pleasant to drive without having to mat the gas pedal to get ahead of traffic.

 

[Finn Yorker]

My NYB was built early in the 78 production run so it’s most probably a standard 727. But it still shifts early as hell.

View attachment 189957

I think that our cars have been at the same time on the production line

 

[cantflip]

Nice even pattern at idle Javier

I would recommend that you take note of the intermediate coil oscillation... a good way to spot coil weakness early. I'd also put her under some load if I wanted to pick up weak cylinders better. That pattern you displayed looked really good to me as far as getting even fuel at idle.

All images stolen from the internet...

This would be a "normal" pattern... yours running a tad lean at idle was fine and the way it should be. I saw nothing I didn't like. At the operating condition you start to feel symptoms, the scope can tell a lot... but can be a little confusing to understand.

Basic things that increase KV and shorten duration are high compression, lean, large plug gap, more heat and load.

Basic things that decrease KV and lengthen duration are low compression, rich, small plug gap, and less heat.

The scope doesn't necessarily tell the exact component, but narrows down the search nicely.

IDK if I helped you, but maybe this was useful to others. OP feel free to add to this. I think @Carmine uses a scope almost everyday and may have some fun stuff to add.

 

[Finn Yorker]

Looks like a nice one. Mine also has the 440. Not crazy about the lean burn. Wonder what it sold for. Anyone know?

The asking price was $14,995 and couple of months ago I accidentally found the old owners Facebook profile and he said that the car was sold to Sweden.

 

[commando1]

View attachment 189974
Nice even pattern at idle Javier

I would recommend that you take note of the intermediate coil oscillation... a good way to spot coil weakness early. I'd also put her under some load if I wanted to pick up weak cylinders better. That pattern you displayed looked really good to me as far as getting even fuel at idle.

View attachment 189975 View attachment 189976View attachment 189977View attachment 189978 View attachment 189979View attachment 189980
All images stolen from the internet...

View attachment 189981
This would be a "normal" pattern... yours running a tad lean at idle was fine and the way it should be. I saw nothing I didn't like. At the operating condition you start to feel symptoms, the scope can tell a lot... but can be a little confusing to understand.

Basic things that increase KV and shorten duration are high compression, lean, large plug gap, more heat and load.

Basic things that decrease KV and lengthen duration are low compression, rich, small plug gap, and less heat.

The scope doesn't necessarily tell the exact component, but narrows down the search nicely.

IDK if I helped you, but maybe this was useful to others. OP feel free to add to this. I think @Carmine uses a scope almost everyday and may have some fun stuff to add.

WTF?

 

[73 T&C]

View attachment 189974
Nice even pattern at idle Javier

I would recommend that you take note of the intermediate coil oscillation... a good way to spot coil weakness early. I'd also put her under some load if I wanted to pick up weak cylinders better. That pattern you displayed looked really good to me as far as getting even fuel at idle.

View attachment 189975 View attachment 189976View attachment 189977View attachment 189978 View attachment 189979View attachment 189980
All images stolen from the internet...

View attachment 189981
This would be a "normal" pattern... yours running a tad lean at idle was fine and the way it should be. I saw nothing I didn't like. At the operating condition you start to feel symptoms, the scope can tell a lot... but can be a little confusing to understand.

Basic things that increase KV and shorten duration are high compression, lean, large plug gap, more heat and load.

Basic things that decrease KV and lengthen duration are low compression, rich, small plug gap, and less heat.

The scope doesn't necessarily tell the exact component, but narrows down the search nicely.

IDK if I helped you, but maybe this was useful to others. OP feel free to add to this. I think @Carmine uses a scope almost everyday and may have some fun stuff to add.

Great summary of wave pattern interpretation Jeff! Thanks!

Very Much appreciated and helpful !!!

Still dailing in the ignition system and working on a new choke and choke pull off setting to help with cold to warm transition but I’m getting closer by the minute.

 

[70NEWYORKER]

Make sure the heated air cleaner system is functional too. These cars are extremely sensitive to air temp at the carb.

 

[73 T&C]

New original Carter choke came in..... back to the shop tomorrow.

 

[73 T&C]

It’s in.

 

[Mr C]

Did you know that the 1978 Chrysler 440 and 400 are the only big block converter's. Not all the 1978's got the lockup's. Chrysler didn't start introducing them until the 1978 production run was already running. Two ways to ID the lockup txsm was the tube on the valve body and the end of the input shaft on the txsm. If the last 5/8" end of the shaft was machined smooth it was a lockup. If it was fluted or spined all the way to the end of the shaft it was not a lockup.

There is also a sticker on the converter that says "lock up". The lock up was not available on the 440...400 only.