Scenicruisin'..?

[amazinblue82]

cantflip has given me hope and reason to pause on ScenicCruiser. I'm still 100% behind my original plan, BUT i gotta get smarter about the structural issues/opportunities associated with the PD4501 design.

i have confidence that repowering it with a modern powerplant was sorted out pretty good in this thread, and cantflip added addtional perspective on that aspect that i believe can be managed as well.

Budget is still $250K or less, but I cannot dive into a money pit over my dream bus .. aint got the cabbage for that. for example...didnt know they had plywood floors that were structural in nature TO the extent their replacement is a concern. probably 4-5 BIG other things I haven't learned.

boiling it down, i think i need a well-documented Scenicruiser specimen, like anything else vintage: who owned it, what was done to it structurally, HOW was whatever was done to it actually DONE, a qualified inspector to go over it, talk to some current/past owners NOW that i know more about what to ask, etc..

Plan B? A 70's-80's Eagle. Man, I DO so like those Flxible Starliners too...but I also am over six feet tall and being really hunched over all the time takes a little fun out the thing.

Plan C? 10-20 Year Old Newell/Prevost.

Plan D? A Class 8 conversion rig as we threw around in this thread and the OK You Truckers thread.

 

[cantflip]

Your comments are very interesting to me. I have played around with the idea of a restored as built PD4501, but have never really done anything about it. I think it would be really neat to be able to gather up ALL my good friends and take a nostalgia bus trip somewhere in a SceniCruiser.

There was a british guy who did an outstanding one some years ago, I think his was mentioned in the thread... he used to have a web site or thread somewhere with his build on it. The biggest issue(s) are time and space and enough sack to take it on... this is a C-body x 10 as far as metal work. Even with cheapish bus trim 45 seat covers are going to hurt the wallet. amazinblue82 really caught my attention with his budget limits, he is in a financial plan that makes this possible.

My bus, purchase $2k, steel order $2k, fasteners $1k.... I know I have at least $10k invested including uninstalled items... My biggest remaining expense is I need to have tanks made... Poopie water, grey water, fresh water and fuel (mines rusty). Runs on regular just fine and I logged about 6-7 MPG...

My investment would be opening money for a project bus purchase in a PD4501. BTW to my knowledge nobody has anything like the driveline setup for the twin 4's, so "as built" would have to be "as recalled" 8v71 supercharged not turbo... a very common bus engine that was obsolete long before the buses stopped using them.

 

[cantflip]

cantflip has given me hope and reason to pause on ScenicCruiser. I'm still 100% behind my original plan, BUT i gotta get smarter about the structural issues/opportunities associated with the PD4501 design.

i have confidence that repowering it with a modern powerplant was sorted out pretty good in this thread, and cantflip added addtional perspective on that aspect that i believe can be managed as well.

Budget is still $250K or less, but I cannot dive into a money pit over my dream bus .. aint got the cabbage for that. for example...didnt know they had plywood floors that were structural in nature TO the extent their replacement is a concern. probably 4-5 BIG other things I haven't learned.

boiling it down, i think i need a well-documented Scenicruiser specimen, like anything else vintage: who owned it, what was done to it structurally, HOW was whatever was done to it actually DONE, a qualified inspector to go over it, talk to some current/past owners NOW that i know more about what to ask, etc..

Plan B? A 70's-80's Eagle. Man, I DO so like those Flxible Starliners too...but I also am over six feet tall and being really hunched over all the time takes a little fun out the thing.

Plan C? 10-20 Year Old Newell/Prevost.

Plan D? A Class 8 conversion rig as we threw around in this thread and the OK You Truckers thread.

If I had it to do over... I would look hard at the class 8... the best money for road use and flexibility. Old trucks are cheap, driveline repairs not so much. My bus was about as cheap as it gets, and even if I give it a Wanderlodge paint job will still forever be a school bus. There are campgrounds that restrict to keep riff raff like me out... also 40 foot is too long for some places... so you really need to have a plan for use in mind. I work with a guy who is a full timer (lives in his RV). He took a job in Long Beach, but couldn't get into a local campground so had a 50ish mile commute... he came back because he spent his life in traffic or at work out there... The campgrounds exist, but they run full in some areas.

If you haven't played in this size vehicle before... there is very little you can do without equipment, many of the parts you can't even lift. Tires are going to be thousands just to replace, when I bought mine I had intended to work out a deal with my OO friend to get his take offs... we never got that far and he sold the truck and became a company driver. I can get a very cheap tire for about $300-400 each or I might find usable take offs for $100 each... I would have to dig around to do any better than that... and remember in 6-7 years the tires are supposed to be replaced again... RV tires fail due to age all the time... air bags in a suspension are aging the same way.

 

[commando1]

air bags in a suspension are aging the same way.

Gotta go against you on this one. In all my years over an infinite amount of semis, I only popped one air bag, many of them heading to the 750,000 mi. mark. And maybe a cupla million milers.
Different type of rubber.

 

[twostick]

Plan B? A 70's-80's Eagle.

Be careful with an Eagle.

From my cruising the Busnut forums they can have major structural corrosion issues depending on where they were operated. The outside can look like new but the chassis underneath will be FUBAR in places hard to see and either impossible or too much $$$ to repair.

Kevin

 

[amazinblue82]

Be careful with an Eagle.

From my cruising the Busnut forums they can have major structural corrosion issues depending on where they were operated. The outside can look like new but the chassis underneath will be FUBAR in places hard to see and either impossible or too much $$$ to repair.

Kevin

yessir. thanks!

 

[commando1]

As we speak...

MOTORCOACH BUS,PARTY,LIMO,UBER,LYFT,FOOD TRUCK,SPORTS TEAM,TOUR,BAND,RV,CHURCH!!

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CKgAAOSwZG9WlIZH/s-l1600.jpg

 

[300rag]

That one must have quite a few leaks, given it is sitting on a containment mat.

 

[twostick]

Just for the record, that's not a Scenic. It's a Buffalo. Nice looking coach too.

Kevin

 

[cantflip]

Gotta go against you on this one. In all my years over an infinite amount of semis, I only popped one air bag, many of them heading to the 750,000 mi. mark. And maybe a cupla million milers.
Different type of rubber.

I'm sorry, I wasn't more clear... When we start talking 1950's for a Scenic and 1980's for the Buffalo you posted... air bags are a crap shoot. On a bus, you would be stuck pretty much right where it came down.
I really like the Buffalo's... they still have much of the appeal of the Scenicruiser to me, but I'm too young for any Scenicruiser memories when they were in service. The down side of the Buffalo is you are dealing with V-Drive transmission for sure, which would greatly limit repower options.

 

[commando1]

Just for the record, that's not a Scenic. It's a Buffalo. Nice looking coach too.

Kevin

I know but they are half the price of a Scenicruiser. lmao

 

[amazinblue82]

why the AC units on the roof? upgrade due to "preference" OR "necessity"
(OEM design does cut it, can't get parts, windows dont open, etc.?)

 

[cantflip]

why the AC units on the roof? upgrade due to "preference" OR "necessity"
(OEM design does cut it, can't get parts, windows dont open, etc.?)

The OEM systems on the old stuff had a separate engine to drive the compressor, at some point I'm sure the manufacturers just took power from the main engine. Point is original systems only had to work when the bus was running. Conversions usually are for camping with shore power available and a generator when not... the availability of the roof tops and that they are the "normal" RV equipment is why they are done so often. There are some conversions done with split A/C systems which are common enough... It hides nicely, but requires a little thought to install cleanly. Regardless of how, a conversion needs an electrically powered A/C and a road bus would be engine driven.

 

[Big_John]

You can always do this with an old bus....

 

[300rag]

And you thought a Peterbilt had a long hood.

 

[commando1]

The OEM systems on the old stuff had a separate engine to drive the compressor, at some point I'm sure the manufacturers just took power from the main engine. Point is original systems only had to work when the bus was running. Conversions usually are for camping with shore power available and a generator when not... the availability of the roof tops and that they are the "normal" RV equipment is why they are done so often. There are some conversions done with split A/C systems which are common enough... It hides nicely, but requires a little thought to install cleanly. Regardless of how, a conversion needs an electrically powered A/C and a road bus would be engine driven.

HowTF have you learned so mch about busses too, of all things?
It is scary to think of how much you have experienced in your lifetime.
And I am talking in a positive manner here.

 

[Deleted member 4847]

1955 Scenicruiser Pd 4501-467

 

[cantflip]

HowTF have you learned so mch about busses too, of all things?
It is scary to think of how much you have experienced in your lifetime.
And I am talking in a positive manner here.

Thanks
Like a lot of us, I was one of those kids who got his *** beat for taking stuff apart... then I started getting in trouble for making stuff work... dad really did not appreciate the solution of bypassing the failed switch on the electric hedge trimmers. I never really grew out of that, but as a person doing work on cars professionally, I realized I didn't want to be just another shop dumbass so I listened and learned and read and learned... I don't believe I have skills that can't be acquired by somebody else, But I spent my life doing this for fun and professionally... I better know something by now.

What's really important to me is how much I learned from older guys when I was young just by listening. Sometimes folks my parents age, more often folks my grandparents age and older would talk about old experiences and I just could never tear myself away from those conversations... I would sit quietly and listen and try to process the information shared. We have lost generations to age that lived through the depression, the great wars, and farming on a small scale and they did lots of stuff due to necessity. Mostly my observation was that was a time when many people had to "make do" and many had a little mechanical knowledge, even if it was shade tree stuff.We are in the process of losing the generation who worked on and drove these buses... those are the stories that I really want to hear/read when I am looking into something. There was a lot more information out there years ago... who says whats on the internet lasts forever?

I'm 47, and the number of folks I know who even own or know how to use tools is scary to me. It just gets worse as they get younger, because their parents never bothered to learn to do anything with their hands. Too many of the folks my age and older who can use tools, can't use the computer... which is the ultimate research tool. I don't know everything... not even close, but I feel I can handle anything given time to research it and figure out what I'm doing.

I spent a number of years researching the internet about buses. I have not worked on them in any professional capacity and have never even touched a 2 stroke DD. I have enough of a concept of them I am pretty sure I could get/keep one running had I gone that way. I choose mine based on my ideas for a raised roof and making it as cheap and convenient to keep in operation as I could... you can still buy everything for my driveline and brakes and lots is on the shelf if you know what to look for. I planned to run the electrical in exposed conduit and the plumbing exposed below for future access for repairs. Built in generators always send some vibration through the chassis, I was leaning toward using a portable to eliminate that, even though I still have my old Onan from the 78.

The months of grinding and welding and bolting... the guys who helped me with my bus called her "overkill". everything was bolted and welded frame wise and all of the rivets removed were replaced with grade 8 bolts and top lock nuts so they would never loosen... it was a 2 man operation for much of the build and I had 4 other guys who contributed their time for price of beer. I really got to sharpen my welding skills, but the critical stuff I saved for Daryl who was a professional. I am also that guy who wouldn't let others tell me it couldn't be done or that I was going too far... I weigh 225-250 and others I intended to have on the roof weigh more... I really want to finish her more, use her one more season and then let her go... I should just let her go... I don't camp as well as I used to.

 

[commando1]

Cantflip, you familiar with Avery's down here?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Yeah I have to go with Stan on air bags and tires. I have had air bags that Bible when wet and still took two more years to fail. Casings don't fail because they are old they fail because they get a puncture and the steel wires in the belts rust/fail or they are run low on air, this happens to dual wheels all the time the low air one flexes more and scrubbs on the pavement causing more heat and then delamination (boom). Use brand new tires on the steers and recaps on the drives. Pull the steers at less than 5 years and trade them at least $100 a piece casing plus some tread life buy 2 new steers that will keep you from using up the life of tire before the tread is gone. Buy recaps from a big company, Bandage, Michilen, etc. they xray the casings, I have only lost one recap that I bought, it sectioned the tread in the center (broken belt) in a month and they replaced free of charge. and do not just glue tread on anything that rolls through the door. There is you truck/bus tire lesson for now.