70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Put it on #1 dist cap tower before you pull it. Easy.
We are really getting to the point where a moderator is going to have to change the name. Will the Saga ever end.
The SAGA Begins - '66 300 Convertible
- Thread starter Ripinator
- Start date
We are really getting to the point where a moderator is going to have to change the name. Will the Saga ever end.
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
Yes. I'd like to avoid this situation. The machinist who built the engine set the distributor at No. 1 with the mark on the damper set at TDC. I asked him about using the distributor drive to prime the oil pump, and he said: "don't do that." Just take the plugs out and spin the engine over to prime the oil pump. I may be over-thinking this whole thing in that I'm expecting to get enough oil pressure to turn off the light and register on the gauge as I crank it. Again - The question is: during cranking of the engine in this manner, should there be enough oil pressure to turn off the light and register on the gauge?
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
Put it on #1 dist cap tower before you pull it. Easy.
We are really getting to the point where a moderator is going to have to change the name. Will the Saga ever end.
You know full well. . . The Saga never ends. . .
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Put some gas and fire to that mother and fire it up. You would already have the answer.
It's pretty easy to reset the drive. In fact, if you go to the FSM, there is an illustration of where the slot in the pump should align with at TDC for #1. If you want, just take a look at where it's set now... Wouldn't surprise me if it's not set correctly though... A lot of engine builders that don't do Mopar engines all the time, don't set it right. Just put it back where it was... or better yet, put it in correctly now.
I would have no confidence in an engine builder that told you this.... I've built a lot of Mopar engines and have always done the prime this way... Never had a failure at start up... Never had an engine blow up. I always do it BEFORE I put the drive gear in though, so I don't have to do this twice.
In answer to your question though.... Maybe you will get oil pressure and maybe you won't. You will get it with a primer.
Yep, it will or it won't. Since Rip didn't build the engine, it's on the builder if it has oil pressure. Given that the builders advice is to not prime it, I'd say the builder is willing to take the gamble.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
All kidding aside, as long as the pick up is not left out or snapped off and all the galley plugs are in it will have oil pressure. Cranking it is probably doing more damage wiping the cam lube off
That's a big one right there.... Saw a few guys leave the one out that goes under the timing chain.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
It is still going to take what seems like a eternity for pressure to come up if it was not primed. The factory did it like that so I guess it is okay. Just not what I would do.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Don't forget the oil hole orientation on the rocker arms.
rexus31
Senior Member
And rotate the engine when you are priming so the top end gets oil.
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
As promised, I thought I would bring you guys up to date. I think I left off with the problems I had with the A/C mounting bracket. If you remember, I resolved that issue with a correct 440 compressor mounting bracket from Murray. However, when I tried to mount the A/C pump again, the power steering bracket wouldn't fit on the front cover mounting boss. This led me to believe that yet another bracket (for the power steering pimp) was also different between the 383 and the 440 engines. Shown below is what I found out:
Here is my power steering pump bracket:
Here is the front cover / water pump housing where it is supposed to mount. As you can see, the boss is 2 and 7/8 inches wide.
Here is the water pump housing from the old 383. As you can see, it is 2 and 1/2 inches wide.
As it turns out, both 383 and 440 engines WITH A/C use the housing with the 2 and 1/2 inch mounting boss. There is no special 440 engine power steering pump bracket. The bracket is the same for both engines. Its the water pump housing that is different.
Here is a shot comparing the two:
So. . . Turns out that the 440 engine I am working with came from a car with no A/C. Had I known housings were different, I would not have ran down this rabbit hole or bored you guys with my lamentations. Of course, after '66 I think Chrysler changed everything regarding the mounts and the brackets, so please take note: the above-described situation probably applies only to '66 and some prior year cars.
Moving right along now, I removed the front cover / water pump housing from the old 383, cleaned it up, painted it and installed the water temp sensor previously installed on the other cover.
One more thing: Someone who I thought was pretty knowledgeable told me that water pump housings for all Chrysler big block engines (including the Hemi) are the same. Obviously, they are not. . .
Here is my power steering pump bracket:
Here is the front cover / water pump housing where it is supposed to mount. As you can see, the boss is 2 and 7/8 inches wide.
Here is the water pump housing from the old 383. As you can see, it is 2 and 1/2 inches wide.
As it turns out, both 383 and 440 engines WITH A/C use the housing with the 2 and 1/2 inch mounting boss. There is no special 440 engine power steering pump bracket. The bracket is the same for both engines. Its the water pump housing that is different.
Here is a shot comparing the two:
So. . . Turns out that the 440 engine I am working with came from a car with no A/C. Had I known housings were different, I would not have ran down this rabbit hole or bored you guys with my lamentations. Of course, after '66 I think Chrysler changed everything regarding the mounts and the brackets, so please take note: the above-described situation probably applies only to '66 and some prior year cars.
Moving right along now, I removed the front cover / water pump housing from the old 383, cleaned it up, painted it and installed the water temp sensor previously installed on the other cover.
One more thing: Someone who I thought was pretty knowledgeable told me that water pump housings for all Chrysler big block engines (including the Hemi) are the same. Obviously, they are not. . .
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
Well John, he didn't say don't prime it. He said prime it using the starter with the spark plugs removed.
I'm not understanding his logic in doing it that way.... The pump isn't down in the oil like other engines, so you have to pull the oil up to the pump, fill a large filter, and then fill the big oil passages in the block. It's going to take a lot of cranking to get that done. Since the bearings etc. are lubed in assembly, I would suppose there would be no damage, but I have to agree with Dave about wiping the assembly lube off the cam. Wiping a lob or two of a new cam at startup has always been my fear, and excessive cranking without firing is always listed as a cause.
If you want to do it that way, I would suggest that at minimum, you fill the oil filter with oil, although you can only fill it halfway because it mounts horizontally. At least that part of the system has oil in it. It really should, eventually, have oil pressure, but if you have been cranking on this engine for a while and that hasn't happened at all, I'd be concerned.
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
Alright, guys. . . I surrender. . . I just ordered the priming tool from Amazon. I'll give it all a go next weekend. Its a three-day holiday weekend, so I'm hoping to get fire in the hole, at least by next Monday. Thanks again to everyone who chimed in on this.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
CCW on the drill
GJS
Senior Member
I would DEFINITELY jump on the bandwagon with the priming tool. When I did my first 440 (which I built myself) I used it and had no problems at all. When I did my timing chain and other things in my 383 I didn't at first and it was clacksville once it fired. I didn't run it long before deciding to shut it down and get the priming tool.
I popped the valve covers off and hooked up a manual gauge, ran the drill (CCW as stated above) until I could feel the draw on it. I then ran it for another 20 seconds or so each at several different positions in the engine's rotation then brought everything back to TDC #1... Put the dist back, hooked everything up and she fired right off. No light, no clacking.
Tool is worth every penny and second used.
I popped the valve covers off and hooked up a manual gauge, ran the drill (CCW as stated above) until I could feel the draw on it. I then ran it for another 20 seconds or so each at several different positions in the engine's rotation then brought everything back to TDC #1... Put the dist back, hooked everything up and she fired right off. No light, no clacking.
Tool is worth every penny and second used.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
You need a POWERFUL drill, btw...
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Let go of the trigger when it starts to smoke, cool down, repeat.
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