were 1970 383 HP's without A/C all orange?
- Thread starter Furious
- Start date
You'll be quickly informed that no such engine was available in a C body.
Or atleast I was, despite mine having a 383 Super Commando.
But apparently the 330HP versus 335HP rating makes it a completely different engine air cleaner to pan.
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
It's nice to see you hanging around again, Nick. . .
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
The 1970 Plymouth Data book shows two different 383 being available in the Fury
And it shows AC being available in both (just not the 2-bbl with a manual)
Maybe I'm missing something,
As for the Color, I have no clue.
Alan
And it shows AC being available in both (just not the 2-bbl with a manual)
Maybe I'm missing something,
As for the Color, I have no clue.
Alan
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
There was no orange 335 horse version available for C bodies so all 383-4s w/wo AC would be blue.
The only exception might have been Canadian production, some of which were red. For whatever reason the Windsor plant painted many of their engines red. Not sure if that continued as late as 1970.
Dave
Dave
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
Red 383's?
For Today, it's quickly becoming a joke here.
It's become nearly impossible to sell anything here and without certain people here, it's becoming nothing Google or an FSM can't replace.
Nick
Aftere YEARS of hearing the non-a/c 383 HPs were all orange and the a/c models were blue, I finally determined something when I was looking at the SAE Specs for Challengers about two years ago.
BOTH 383 4bbls use code "N" in the VIN, but they are different engines that used that code in 1970 in E-bodies. They are not, as mentioned, the same engine specs, with the main difference being the camshaft. The 383/330 uses the normal 256/260 4bbl cam and the 383/335 uses the 440/375 cam, which is more duration and lift.
In the B and E bodies, if you bought a Satellite with a 383 HP motor, you got what used to be the 383/325 dual exhaust 383 4bbl, but with the HP exhaust manifolds and probably a Road Runner style unsilenced air cleaner sitting on to. To all the world, other than the air cleaner pie pan, it looked just like what came in the Road Runners, but had the normal 4bbl cam. With engine code "N" in the vin, which decodes to be "383 High-Performance" (even in the 1970 C-body service manual!).
In the Plymouth realm of things, if you bought a '70 Barracuda Gran Coupe with the "N" 383, you got the 383/330 std cam motor, but if you got a '70 'Cuda 383 "N", it was the 383/335 motor. Similar between Challengers and Challenger R/Ts. In other words, the only place the 383/335 should have been installed was in the hp musclecar models, not in the non-muscle car models of the same body series. BUT in all cases, the VIN code was "N".
The OTHER thing is that as the 383/335 was the "hot rod motor", it got orange paint to go along with the 426HEMI paint scheme of things. Which also was a visual identifier to the assembly line people of which engine was to go into which car. A Road Runner/Super Bee or Challenger R/T would have been orange, whether it had factory a/c or not, according to my theroies mentioned above.
Now, it might have also been that some of the 'wrong engines" (orange) got into the right cars (which also had the "N" VIN code, but didn't have factory a/c). Just as some of the same interiors (with the build sheets attached to the seat springs) got into cars which did not match the VIN on the seats, but visually matched what was supposed to be there. Which is why some cars were found with build sheets that didn't match their VIN on the instrument panel or door post.
When I got my '70 Monaco Brougham DH43N in 1975, it has the 383 "N" V-8, with factory a/c, and is painted Chrysler Blue. The AVS that was on it was the 4732S carb, which was the orig carb. It was just a used car, back then, so it was unmolested. HP exhaust manifolds and crinkle-black dual snorkle air cleaner, too. VIN Code "N", which the factory Ploara/Monaco Service Manual said was "383 High-Performance", but in the engine specs, it had the normal 256/260 cam specs rather than the OTHER non-C-body 383 "N" of 268/284, which I suspected was a typo at that time. My more recent research revealed that it was NOT a typo, but accurate.
When the 1970s were new cars, I read the sales brochures from front to back many times, but suspected the difference in the 383 4bbl power rating might have a few tweaks to it. Not discounting that as if you start to figure in the added power of the RR cam over the "standard cam" 4bbl, then the unsilenced air cleaner, plus the HP high-rise exhaust manifolds, then it tended to make more sense (in later years) why NHRA factored the 383/335 to a higher power rating than the factory rating.
Obviously, a good bit of the reason for the confusion was due to the way Chrysler did things. It would have been very easy to segregate the two 383 4bbls with different VIN codes, but they didn't, for whatever reason. Which would have solved many concerns and prevented lots of bench raceing discussions.
Seems like there have been some situations, in particular model years, where some 440s in B-bodies could not have factory a/c with a 4-speed manual transmission? THAT could make some sense, especially with a deep rear axle ratio. Much fewer warranty claims of flying-off fan belts or trashed a/c compressors, possibly? And that 440 would have been painted orange, too?
So, no 383/335s in C-body cars. That 383/335 "N" would have only been in B/E-body factory hot rod models ("Cuda, RR, SB, and R/T) and very probably have been painted orange, with or without factory a/c, when available. Until 1970, the A-body 'Cuda 383 had less power due to its lh exhaust manifold to clear the steering system and was most probably the "standard cam 256/260" cam, but I'd have to verify that. The E-body 'Cuda started in 1970, with the 383/335 motor.
Other input and factory pictures?
Enjoy!
CBODY67
BOTH 383 4bbls use code "N" in the VIN, but they are different engines that used that code in 1970 in E-bodies. They are not, as mentioned, the same engine specs, with the main difference being the camshaft. The 383/330 uses the normal 256/260 4bbl cam and the 383/335 uses the 440/375 cam, which is more duration and lift.
In the B and E bodies, if you bought a Satellite with a 383 HP motor, you got what used to be the 383/325 dual exhaust 383 4bbl, but with the HP exhaust manifolds and probably a Road Runner style unsilenced air cleaner sitting on to. To all the world, other than the air cleaner pie pan, it looked just like what came in the Road Runners, but had the normal 4bbl cam. With engine code "N" in the vin, which decodes to be "383 High-Performance" (even in the 1970 C-body service manual!).
In the Plymouth realm of things, if you bought a '70 Barracuda Gran Coupe with the "N" 383, you got the 383/330 std cam motor, but if you got a '70 'Cuda 383 "N", it was the 383/335 motor. Similar between Challengers and Challenger R/Ts. In other words, the only place the 383/335 should have been installed was in the hp musclecar models, not in the non-muscle car models of the same body series. BUT in all cases, the VIN code was "N".
The OTHER thing is that as the 383/335 was the "hot rod motor", it got orange paint to go along with the 426HEMI paint scheme of things. Which also was a visual identifier to the assembly line people of which engine was to go into which car. A Road Runner/Super Bee or Challenger R/T would have been orange, whether it had factory a/c or not, according to my theroies mentioned above.
Now, it might have also been that some of the 'wrong engines" (orange) got into the right cars (which also had the "N" VIN code, but didn't have factory a/c). Just as some of the same interiors (with the build sheets attached to the seat springs) got into cars which did not match the VIN on the seats, but visually matched what was supposed to be there. Which is why some cars were found with build sheets that didn't match their VIN on the instrument panel or door post.
When I got my '70 Monaco Brougham DH43N in 1975, it has the 383 "N" V-8, with factory a/c, and is painted Chrysler Blue. The AVS that was on it was the 4732S carb, which was the orig carb. It was just a used car, back then, so it was unmolested. HP exhaust manifolds and crinkle-black dual snorkle air cleaner, too. VIN Code "N", which the factory Ploara/Monaco Service Manual said was "383 High-Performance", but in the engine specs, it had the normal 256/260 cam specs rather than the OTHER non-C-body 383 "N" of 268/284, which I suspected was a typo at that time. My more recent research revealed that it was NOT a typo, but accurate.
When the 1970s were new cars, I read the sales brochures from front to back many times, but suspected the difference in the 383 4bbl power rating might have a few tweaks to it. Not discounting that as if you start to figure in the added power of the RR cam over the "standard cam" 4bbl, then the unsilenced air cleaner, plus the HP high-rise exhaust manifolds, then it tended to make more sense (in later years) why NHRA factored the 383/335 to a higher power rating than the factory rating.
Obviously, a good bit of the reason for the confusion was due to the way Chrysler did things. It would have been very easy to segregate the two 383 4bbls with different VIN codes, but they didn't, for whatever reason. Which would have solved many concerns and prevented lots of bench raceing discussions.
Seems like there have been some situations, in particular model years, where some 440s in B-bodies could not have factory a/c with a 4-speed manual transmission? THAT could make some sense, especially with a deep rear axle ratio. Much fewer warranty claims of flying-off fan belts or trashed a/c compressors, possibly? And that 440 would have been painted orange, too?
So, no 383/335s in C-body cars. That 383/335 "N" would have only been in B/E-body factory hot rod models ("Cuda, RR, SB, and R/T) and very probably have been painted orange, with or without factory a/c, when available. Until 1970, the A-body 'Cuda 383 had less power due to its lh exhaust manifold to clear the steering system and was most probably the "standard cam 256/260" cam, but I'd have to verify that. The E-body 'Cuda started in 1970, with the 383/335 motor.
Other input and factory pictures?
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Example is from a '66 Canadian Windsor. There is a long winded article about this car's restoration at 1966 Chrysler Windsor: The Best Bad Decision I Ever Made! - Riverside Green
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
the quick response to this is: Some is true, some is not true and some is conditionally true.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
There was not an orange 383-4 application in any 69 or 70 C body.
antonellomopar
New Member
the N code 383 in my 70 Fury conv was blue.
I know of four N-code 1970 Fury 'verts and would love to hear more about yours. Three are mentioned here (FK3 PM27N0D105754 owned by @Dimitri Romanenko , DY2 PM27N0D233592 formerly sold by @Jeff in 2018, and PM27N0D108414 -- an EF8 project car that's been for sale in Oregon for some time), while the fourth was for sale a month ago in Rosser, Manitoba (PM27N0D224816 repainted red).
--> If you could post your car's tag and tells us about its history in the "Last Convertibles" thread started by @c-barge , that would be great! I have one photo of it (blue, correct?) but wish to see more
PS: Back to the topic of the present thread, the car for sale in Canada (PM27N0D224816) sports red valve covers but the paint in the engine bay does not look original.
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Good to know. Interesting that they had two different N code engines for B/E vs C bodies
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