polara71
Old Man with a Hat
Couldnt tell you. My thought is based on what Ive heard over the last 35 years. Would have been nice
C-Body Holy Grail Restoration Starts Here; 1970 6BBL GT
- Thread starter Fury Pursuit
- Start date
1969vert500
Active Member
I swear the 70 hurst parts car I had was equipped with a Bendix unit on it just like this one??
The air cleaner hits the compressor.
My SFGT had a 69 bbl setup that had been added in the early 70's. The A12 air cleaner they used had been cut up pretty good to clear the compressor.
polara71
Old Man with a Hat
what compressor? I read the question as , if no A/C why not a Hemi installed in a C .... No?
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Well... That's the reason, as I understand it, for no a/c with the 6bbl.
As for the Hemi, I would assume it's more about cost of tooling up for the different motor mounts needed for the Hemi. The B-bodies had a different K-Frame because of the mounts. I would bet the decision was made on sales v. tooling cost.
The other factor is that on most days, a good 440 6bbl would smoke a Hemi. It's all about torque and how well the engine was running. The Hemi is very formidable IF it's running right. Very few guys back then (even today) could keep the Hemi running in day to day usage. They were very fussy about everything.
In a C body, you had a couple things going against you. First, there wasn't the high ratio Dana rear ends. The broad, flexible torque band of a 440 is what you need with the lower ratios and the added weight of the C-Body.
In other words, they might sell a few Hemi C-bodies, but the buyers wouldn't be happy, especially when Bob from down the street smokes their *** at the stoplight drags with his big block Impala.
As for the Hemi, I would assume it's more about cost of tooling up for the different motor mounts needed for the Hemi. The B-bodies had a different K-Frame because of the mounts. I would bet the decision was made on sales v. tooling cost.
The other factor is that on most days, a good 440 6bbl would smoke a Hemi. It's all about torque and how well the engine was running. The Hemi is very formidable IF it's running right. Very few guys back then (even today) could keep the Hemi running in day to day usage. They were very fussy about everything.
In a C body, you had a couple things going against you. First, there wasn't the high ratio Dana rear ends. The broad, flexible torque band of a 440 is what you need with the lower ratios and the added weight of the C-Body.
In other words, they might sell a few Hemi C-bodies, but the buyers wouldn't be happy, especially when Bob from down the street smokes their *** at the stoplight drags with his big block Impala.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
The factory Hemis on the street were miserable SOBs.
You would change the plugs and by the time you got to Dairy Queen you needed another set of plugs.
You would change the plugs and by the time you got to Dairy Queen you needed another set of plugs.
barnfind
Old Man with a Hat
Some good points, the six pack had its own tuning issues from day to day. Lots of people had the 6bbl pulled regardless of the line of car in exchange for a 4bbl.
Yea, usually the problem was they had done something wrong because they "read it in a magazine" and they never could figure out how to undo their mistakes. I bought a couple sets of carbs from guys that couldn't make them "work" after they'd screwed with them. They worked fine when I was done.
I put about 85k miles on my A12, including using it as my only means of transportation for a couple of summers. The car always ran great and ran hard.
All Holley carburetors in the early 70s were junk - they wouldn't last but a few years before warping and leaking (bowls, metering blocks, etc). The castings were of poor metals. Even the Holley representative stationed in the carb lab at Chrysler Engineering in Highland Park, MI admitted they weren't worth trying to rebuild after a couple years. When I restored my 70 Cuda 440-6, I dumped the original carbs that I couldn't get to run right (and I could see the warpage it was so obvious) and purchased the much later reproduction 3- 2-bbl carbs and haven't had a problem with them in over 20 years now. Even with ethanol fuel in these later years. They always start, while my original Carter AVS carbs always seem to need the accelerator pump or needle and seat soaked in carb cleaner to work well again. The 440+6 engine is a beast and runs better than a 426 Hemi I had in a 1969 Road Runner - it was always tempermental and especially during warm up, was a bear to keep running.
Chrysler stopped using the Holley 4 BBL carbs in about 1972. Those carbs were heavy, complex and required more time to assemble, so they could not compete with the simple and reliable Carter AVS carbs in either price to the company or reliability in the field. Chrysler continued to use the Holley 2 bbls in later years, but even those were nothing but trouble - again warped castings. When they ran well, they were really good, but that didn't last long. I worked in the fuel systems department in central engineering starting in 1970, so that is why I am aware of these issues very well. And I knew both the Carter and Holley reps very well.
Chrysler stopped using the Holley 4 BBL carbs in about 1972. Those carbs were heavy, complex and required more time to assemble, so they could not compete with the simple and reliable Carter AVS carbs in either price to the company or reliability in the field. Chrysler continued to use the Holley 2 bbls in later years, but even those were nothing but trouble - again warped castings. When they ran well, they were really good, but that didn't last long. I worked in the fuel systems department in central engineering starting in 1970, so that is why I am aware of these issues very well. And I knew both the Carter and Holley reps very well.
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Yea, there was the warpage problem too. I tend to forget about that... Of course I was working as a Tool & Die Maker back then and I used to make the surfaces straight as a matter of course. One way or another. LOL.
The Thermoquad had a bad issue with the plastic body warping. The tool shop around the corner from where I worked was grinding them flat for Carter. It seems they couldn't get it right and farmed it out to them. I don't know if they did all of them or just doing test runs. They were very tight lipped about it.
You are correct, as that became a big problem later too. So rebuilding TQs are hit and miss these days. The warpage, if it takes place, is subtle and hard to find, and you very well may not be succesful. I can usually rebuild them 80% of the time successfully (unlike the early Holleys - usually never), but that other 20% of the time is a *****. I end up throwing them out and getting another one to rebuild. I personally just can't see the warpage, but they definitely won't work unless you can find it and fix it.
And then, the TQs were used in the lean burn systems in later years too - a total disaster in and of itself (lean burn was just stupid when a catalyst was there to clean up the emissions - lean burn wasn't worth anything and only caused driveability problems) plus unreliable early electronics. I was not surprised when Chrysler went belly up in circa 1980 - it was easy to see coming................they had some really bad middle managers and top management near the end then.
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barnfind
Old Man with a Hat
Yes, my point is if AC was the reason for not producing a hemi in a C then why are there 11 V codes out there (no AC on a V code)? Mopar was going for the muscle car effect with the V code GT, Why not go all out?
Fury Pursuit
Senior Member
Good question,....easy answer. Chrysler Co. did not build ANY V-code/6BBL/SIX-PACK car with Air Conditioning; either E-Body, B-Body, or C-Body. The 6BBl air cleaner assembly made contact with the A/C compressor, and Ma MoPar wasn't going to re-engineer that! No A/C in a 6BBL car, period.
There is one car, dealer installed, but not from any plant. TTBOMK.
Also, on the "Hemi" C-Body question....the 70 Hurst 300 was slated for the 426 Hemi as standard engine, but as a "mid year" release, there just wasn't time to engineer the mounts, exhaust, etc.
Can you imagine well healed "executive" owners of Sport Fury GT's taking their Hemi powered car for a tune up every month because of poor running conditions, especially in the winter months? The 6BBL option makes scene, from a manufacturing/sales platform.
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Nick, are you planning on keeping the black vinyl roof on your car? I am not seeing holes for the trim, so I was just wondering. Normally I like vinyl roofs, but on a GT, not so much.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
You're scaring me with all your knowledge that tells me you were an insider back then.
Who are you?
CanCritter
Senior Member
thought that was common knowlage....
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Ask me about Formals..
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
No A/C. . .
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