Stock???

[saforwardlook]

When I go to car shows, I like to see how the cars looked when they were new in the showroom. I personally want to recreate history with my cars, so they represent that goal. I really don't care about someone's idea of what the car could have looked like, the addition of aftermarket bling or whatever. I see those efforts as one's personal expression of how he wants the car to look, and if he thinks that makes him look or feel cool, so be it. But I personally have zero interest in modified cars. Custom car shows reflect creativity and out of the box thinking, but again, they are generally boring to me but some cars are interesting and very creative. But going to a car show or seeing certain models of cars on the road that reflect just how the cars looked when new is exciting, especially if I have never seen one in the flesh before, or if I see one that is very rare/desirable but really well done to original specs. For those of us who are older, some of us like to relive the past, when things weren't so homogenized, electronically controlled, and cars had real style and creativity from gifted stylists. Also, unmodified/original cars are far more valuable than modified ones when you go to sell them. Many modified cars are poorly done, in fact, I would say most of them, but there are a few that are really well done and tasteful. But even the well done ones generally make me yawn. I can't imagine modifying any of the cars I have done, and here are a few examples, the way they really looked when new:

There is really no "right" answer to this question, and if you are young and have no connection to the past in terms of really living it, I can see why you might want to be what you consider "more creative". I really believe my past consisted of better times than today, when people were more kind, respectful, not so angry or self centered, where you knew your neighbors and helped each other, and you didn't seem to worry about crime so much such that you even left your doors unlocked at night when you went to bed. Technology and the rush for wealth and the importance of "me" and the decline in spiritual faith has done us no favors. Reliving the past allows us older folks to reminisce with good memories. Today is very different, and not better in our so sophisticated lives wrapped up in our smart phones now, IMO.

 

[LocuMob]

Nice cars safowardlook. With examples like that I'd keep them stock too. I guess I'd put my cars in the day 2 category, wheels and engine dress up type things. As I said before, none of my stuff is special, just mass produced cars with nothing special to them.

I was at the Nationals in Columbus some years back and met a gentleman who had his 66 Monaco 500 and it was just like the day it was new. Nice clean yellow car. The thing that got me was the door panels and the backs of the bucket seats had a wicker style insert. He said that's how the car came. I thought that what cool as s#!t. All the crazy stuff you could do/order for a car back then. Things like that I love the stock aspect. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of that car.

 

[shooter65]

I'll throw into this also. Hi Furyus 67, I'll try to give you insight to MY resto point of view. If you've read any of my posts you know I'm a resto guy, not a mod guy. I feel the same as saforwardlook. Having said that, to each his own.

I think many mod guys underestimate the time, patience, effort, skill, etc., etc. it takes to restore a car and many resto guys underestimate what it takes to tastefully, skillfully, etc., etc., modify a car. I certainly don't have the skill to do some of the crazy mods I've seen on well done customs but I, personally am far more impressed with a car that has been properly restored like the pics saforwardlook posted then any custom mod.

I had a conversation years ago with a car guy who was not loyal to any make and he made a good point. We both hate tuners but the kids that are building the tuners are helping to keep the hobby alive. I keep all my vehicles stock with the exception of some bolt on mods on my daily drivers to enhance functionality but even then, I try to keep it Mopar because I adhere to the belief that I'm only the caretaker of the car for the next guy/girl. You never know, in 30 to 40 years, if I keep my vehicles nice, someone may want to collect one of them as a classic. No one thought in 69 that a 69 4 door hdtp 300 would be collected.

Probably because of my OCD but to me, it's more of a challenge to try to keep/restore a car back to original showroom then to mod it.

I know it was a long way to go to say that I'm a car guy and deep down I love them all but it's only original once so I always feel a twinge when I see a car moded so much that it changes parts that can't be used on any other car because those parts can't be used to restore another car.

If you're going to mod a car, do the hobby a favor and don't throw out or destroy parts that someone else may want/need.

I'd rather give something away then throw it away. I live by that and do it often.

 

[1978 NYB]

Nice cars saforwardlook!!!

 

[cantflip]

I can't imagine modifying any of the cars I have done, and here are a few examples, the way they really looked when new:

There is really no "right" answer to this question, and if you are young

The 300 F alone would have been enough to get you on the "you suck" list. Excellent cars.

In light of another thread that has raised the question for me, why stock? I realize that am not but a "young punk". Yet I do not understand the need to leave a vehicle as it left the factory. Especially these C bodies! Personally I welcome and respect the creativity that's involved in " customizing" a car. I may not agree with all of the technics or the taste of said customizer. But why is stock better ?

If you do the work yourself, finish it in the best quality you can and love it as your own... most of us will appreciate your efforts, even if not the results. If you decide to sell it, gloves are off and your a flipper. If you have to stop part way through the project and rehome her, most will wonder why you took so much apart if you weren't ready to put it back together. I hope I haven't said anything to disrespect your ride, sorry if I did. For the most part its not right or accepted to tear at each other except in fun. Lots of people won't like whatever I do to mine when I find her, but I will not do anything that makes her worse or irreversible changes.

Tastes in cars as well as tastes in customizing are often greatly influenced by the generation you grew up in and the influences you had. For me there will always be ONE Batmobile, and it never could have gone off roading or jump a parking tie. An *** in the air, camed up 60s or 70s car has some nostalgia, but nothing I want to emulate. I checked out every even sort of car related book from the both the school and local library. I do have a love of 50s 60s customs and think a chopped and smoothed 51 merc is the ultimate cruiser. I like muscle cars a lot too, but I don't feel the need to race or be better than the next guy. I am surrounded by lowered Hondas, ridiculously lifted trucks and other stupidity every day in a state with no inspections and a bad insurance track record.

I really try not to hate any of them all the way. Most people see a car as an appliance. When the fridge breaks, we decide color, door configuration, size, cost... but we don't lie awake dreaming of the perfect refrigerator. That is exactly the same way maybe 80-90% of people see their cars. We car nuts see them differently, we appreciate them differently and we are better off being more supportive of each other because divided we have no clout with legislators when it comes time to pass the next dumbass mandate.

Modifications too often are done very poorly and many cause safety issues. The lowered Bee in the other post was mentioned to handle better than stock. Are you sure? Wider wheels, and lower center of gravity are things that can help handling, but there is a ton more to it than simply cutting a spring, cranking down a T-bar or installing lowering blocks/ Walmart shackles. For example, the lowered Honda crowd has screwed up the "instant center" of their cars to the point they squat more on take off... not ideal for a FWD, The cranked down suspension has screwed up "steering axis inclination" and screams the tires every time you pull into a parking space. Neither handles speed bumps and potholes well.

IMO if want to "stance" your car, go for it. Try to do it with moderate changes that can be undone with hand tools, not welders. Go conservative unless you really think your ready to re-engineer ALL of the handling angles. Be honest with yourself, the car may not lean so much anymore, but now breaks traction very suddenly...not safe or better.

Wheels and tires are easy boltons, and just as easily undone. Don't discard the old because you got tired of moving them, they always belong to that car. Hubcaps used to be so common there were businesses in every town for used/new replacements... hardly even see them on the road and I love watching a young guy with no experience fight installing a tight one, like they watched me when I started. DO NOT grind away metal from suspension components so they fit... big safety fail there... and way too common. I run extra load 235/75/15XL on 2 of my cars and buy one model of Michelin tires based on their longevity and wet road traction. They will go on my Formal purchase as well, that way I can rotate them for use AND age amongst my vehicles. I will get bitched at for maybe a 74 Imperial with blackwalls or RWLs out and I don't care... I will always have a premium performing tire on the car is I road trip or get caught in the rain. XL tires are actually higher load rated than LT tires in this size and traction range.

Engine mods are often done by someone who's entire understanding and research was the cam chart in the summit catalog, a few episodes of a TV show where they cant even break in a cam and the dumbasses he thinks know something. Fact is I would do a lot of research before I changed a cam from stock, and yes I would be willing to change. I have 30 years working on cars professionally and never did that mod work on customer's cars... too many problems and not enough pay for it. How many times have you seen the huge cam, dual plane, stock driveline, headers, 2" pipe or 3" pipe and cheapest carburetor combo... and he insists it makes power. All it takes to make a buildable engine block into scrap iron is a dumbass with a cylinder hone or one improperly torqued cap bolt.

Body mods I have done, either on something rough enough to be without value or so common and still current enough there a zillion others around. If I found a clean uncut 51 merc today, it wouldn't be in my heart to modify her. In the 50s 60s she was just another used car... no big deal. I have a 49 4dr Windsor in the garage that I bought just because I liked the backside and wanted to lower the roof. Life got in the way and title issues... I will let that one go help restore something else, it was cheap, not nice but solid enough for my thoughts. I have raised the roof on a bus used as an infield camper. A car that you want to modify that is rare would be kind of a shame... they don't undo very easily. Think if you grind off the studs for side moldings, how will they be replaced by the next guy if he wants it correct. I'm not saying don't do it... but be sure your going to finish the car nice if you do.

Sermon over...

 

[cantflip]

By that logic, everyone should leave their car just the way it is when it they purchased it, new or used.

To an extent that's true. From a dealer tech, if you screwed with it, you own the problems. I don't care which way it goes, but modified stuff goes up the food chain and warranties are legally voided if the manufacturer says so. I do charge more to figure out where your box of parts all go or to undo/rework the crap you screw up... I am fair to us both and sleep just fine. Aftermarket stereos usually get wired by some minimum wage circuit city guy and have no provisions for future repairs... I cost a lot more than him when I have to redo it to fix your A/C. I once got to replace all of the fiber optic cable in a 2 week old car because the purchaser was too cheap/stupid to go with the factory cd changer and the stereo shop guy thought cutting and crimp butt splicing those big orange wires was a good idea. About $6500 later, he saved a bunch.

If a car has non factory wheels, I always look before I take apart. Many conversation like "Yes Mr. Smith you do need brakes. I cant guarantee the wheels will stay attached the way they are installed, so I wont touch it unless we make it right. For the inspection, no charge." I never had to be a thief or a scumbag to make a fair living and I am legally obligated as a professional to make the car safe... regardless of where you are in the country.

If you want modifications, cool, but safety isn't an option and the biggest genius at the local rent a wheel probably isn't qualified to mop the floor in the dealership.

 

[The Horvaths]

I, personally, enjoy both stock and slightly modified cars. The mods that I do put on a car must be useful though, and I never throw away anything that I replace. The factors that go into deciding stock vs. modified are condition, value, rarity, the amount of original parts on the car, and what I plan to do with the car. I do not build my car for the approval of others. I do it because it makes me happy.
My "modified" car:

 

[commando1]

Maybe I'm chasing my tail!

I know the feeling.
You stop, catch your breath, and see that once again, the unwashed masses never heard a word of what you said.

 

[furyus 67]

That's a nice looking fury Mr. Horvath!! And thanks for the serman Cantflip. Maybe this is a better example of what I'm asking: All Cherokees came from the factory with rear drum breaks. Unfortunately when off-roading drum brakes aren't the best. I started digging around in the boneyards to see what I could find to replace them. I came across a liberty with similar 8 1/4 rear axle. I bought the axle ,brought it home and swapped the drum brakes on mine for the disks of the Liberty. Change the proportioning valve and replace a few lines and wham!! I've got all wheel disks, 2000 times better than factory. Now I know the Cherokee isn't a 300h or a hemicuda, it's just an example as are the brakes . I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to improve safety and handling on any car, if they could.Why leave it stock??

 

[shooter65]

You keep asking the same question, "Why leave it stock?" and you've received several valid responses. Obviously you just don't get it. Move on and be happy with what you do. Don't be too thin skinned though if you get on forums. Opinions are like *** holes, everyone has one and they're only useful for the person that has it. You complained in an earlier post that people criticize your decisions/opinions but that's exactly what your doing by dismissing the many explanations on why some of us prefer to leave them stock. This is like arguing politics or religion, best to walk away which is what I'm going to do. Hope you enjoy your car.

 

[Big_John]

.

Tastes in cars as well as tastes in customizing are often greatly influenced by the generation you grew up in and the influences you had. For me there will always be ONE Batmobile, and it never could have gone off roading or jump a parking tie.
.

FWIW, there's a lot of people that say the batmobile is an abomination and should be restored to it's original form as the Lincoln Futura.

The argument of original v. restored v. resto mod v. customized will continue on ad nauseam.

 

[Stormer]

Slam em to the ground. All of em.....

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Godammit Jeff Cantflip I wore a hole in the screen on my phone, and you helped Steve.

 

[furyus 67]

You keep asking the same question, "Why leave it stock?" and you've received several valid responses. Obviously you just don't get it. Move on and be happy with what you do. Don't be too thin skinned though if you get on forums. Opinions are like *** holes, everyone has one and they're only useful for the person that has it. You complained in an earlier post that people criticize your decisions/opinions but that's exactly what your doing by dismissing the many explanations on why some of us prefer to leave them stock. This is like arguing politics or religion, best to walk away which is what I'm going to do. Hope you enjoy your car.

Yes they have ALL been valid responses!! And yes the question still remains for me. I don't think those responses have helped clear things for me. Im more inclined to think that maybe the question itself is the hang up here. I was in no way referring to my car, or anyone's opinion on what I'm doing with it. It was more of a " if you can improve it, why shouldn't you!"(not in a rear spoiler and sound system kinda way) And yes I do like to argue but not about politics or religion. Also where in the hell did I complain about people criticizing MY decisions/opinions? Criticize away, I won't shed a tear! Something has been lost to text for you to come to this understanding of the question.

 

[furyus 67]

Slam em to the ground. All of em.....

That's where I'm at with it!

FWIW, there's a lot of people that say the batmobile is an abomination and should be restored to it's original form as the Lincoln Futura.

The argument of original v. restored v. resto mod v. customized will continue on ad nauseam.

Indeed it will John!

 

[furyus 67]

I humbly apologize for anything that could have been perceived as insulting or disrespectful. This was not my intent. My question is not a question of ..to customize or not. When I say "improve" I mean more along the lines of handling or braking not halo headlights and bigger wheels. Why not replace outdated rubber brake lines with stainless steel. I think in my attempt to ask the question clearly I have clouded it instead.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I humbly apologize for anything that could have been perceived as insulting or disrespectful. This was not my intent. My question is not a question of ..to customize or not. When I say "improve" I mean more along the lines of handling or braking not halo headlights and bigger wheels. Why not replace outdated rubber brake lines with stainless steel. I think in my attempt to ask the question clearly I have clouded it instead.

Here hold my beer and watch this it always makes a big storm.
GET RID OF THOSE DAMN BIAS TIRES!!!!

 

[67-Fury]

I love the look of Bias plys. I have 2 Mickey Thompsons waiting to be put on a Hotrod i plan on making.

 

[furyus 67]

Exactly Dave!!! I think if We could all just go have a beer, and I could vocally explain myself I would sound less like an *******........or maybe not lol.

 

[furyus 67]

I love the look of Bias plys. I have 2 Mickey Thompsons waiting to be put on a Hotrod i plan on making.

And what hotrod would that be??